Comments on: Back to "The Matrix" https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716 2002-2015 Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:47:42 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Charack https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6406 Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:47:42 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6406 I think PETER S. JENKINS is probably correct in his general assesment that these new online communities will in the end be almost entirely selfregulating, as has been historically the case here in the US. Whenever faced with governmental regulation or control, most organizations and communities have elected to self regulate themselves to within the tolerable limits of the community as a whole. I don’t foresee these online communities being any different, albeit their cursory nod to the age laws of “meatspace.” Other than that, I think they’ll function much like company town or other countries, each unto itself, will have it’s own set of laws and guidelines which will be roughly parallel to it’s founders’ “meatspace” laws, but which will have little quirks here and there. Fir example: The China case involving Hacking could be likened to similar “meatspace” cases on Smuggling or Piracy

]]>
By: .hack/jhimm https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6405 Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:47:36 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6405 The big question–what if any social controls should be placed on the evolution of video online worlds–is baffling and as far as I am aware has attracted little attention.

that’s probably because the only people who want to see video games regulated are the people who don’t play them. as the demographic for video gamers grows (as it has, by leaps and bounds, in the last 30 years) to include more and more “mainstream” people, and as the original video game generation comes into an age to begin to take political offices, i suspect the will to regulate will fall off even further.

]]>
By: Mojo https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6404 Fri, 27 Aug 2004 04:02:34 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6404 We’re moving to the world of The Matrix? Oh my God! Does that mean the plot of my life is going to just keep getting crappier and more confused? (Matrix fans please don’t kill me through my computer.)
Seriously, I think we already have virtual laws, courts, etc. People are expelled from virtual worlds or otherwise punished all the time for violations of the rules. That is being done by the owner (service provider) of the virtual world. Appeal of those rulings can only reasonably be done using contract law, just like any other service. Any other approach fails when you consider that the owners of the service may be incorporated in Thailand, one player/disputant may live in Virginia and another player/disputant may live in the UK. “Community Standards” inside the game just means the rules of the service. In the “meat world” there’s no difference as far as community standards is concerned between watching a dirty movie at home and participating in a virtual world where you watch a dirty movie. (Although virtual courts to resolve disputes in the virtual world are a nice gimmick for some game service provider to use.)

]]>
By: David Weil https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6403 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:01:06 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6403 I think what gets really interesting is when virtual worlds cease to be merely entertainment – wherein people are willing to tolerate a greater degree of risk – and become tools for work. Telepresence, for one. Thus far it hasn’t really taken off, but if the technology is there, why not have the board meeting in a virtual Hawaii, or some other congenial, low-stress locale, especially if nobody actually needs to fly there? Assuming virtual worlds, virtual workplaces follow.

I think at that point we’ll need to consider the virtual world a semi-real place, with fixed laws based on some real-world locale. (“The laws of the state of Washington will apply at all times in MSN-Reality.”) The alternative is to pretend that sexual harassment, for example, doesn’t happen if it takes place in a virtual world, and that hardly seems reasonable. (The other possibility is the virtual world as its own sovereign territory, with its own laws, police and courts, but I can’t see that happening.)

Interestingly we had a very interesting discussion about this kind of issue at a convention I was at – in 1993. So “little attention” does not necessarily mean “no attention.”

]]>
By: Edward Castronova https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6402 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:06:34 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6402 maybe we’ll have wires in our heads, maybe not. doesn’t matter, i think. today we’ve only got keyboards and CRTs, but there are already millions of people immersing themselves. virtual reality is here.

so. now that we have practical, easily-accessible, widespread, cheap, virtual reality, what do we do? posner wants us to think about shaping its evolution. one thing seems fairly certain: if there is an ideal evolutionary path here, it is probably not going to be produced by the free market. preferences are very much in play, perhaps not as much as in the case of hallucinatory drugs, but not far from it. not that the potential for preference manipulation has yet been realized; today’s game designers are not evil people. but the potential is there.

in any case, it would be good to have a wide-angle debate about the ethics of making these places.

]]>
By: Macneil https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6401 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:51:42 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6401 Stop watching TV… it’s already made some of us zombies who are detatched from the real world.

]]>
By: Douglas Galbi https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6400 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:49:33 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6400 Jacking the world directly into the mind, which is somewhere inside the head, is a misleading image from Gibson’s novel Neuromancer. The Matrix takes this sort of biological misunderstanding one step further. Personal experience of the world is not the product of separable inputs to a small organ within the head, at least according to the best current scientific understanding of human being. Making sense, traditionally and misleadingly divided into sensation, perception, and cognition, occurs throughout the whole human body. For a review of some relevant research in neuroscience and experimental psychology, see Section I of my work, “Sense in Communication,” at http://www.galbithink.org

Also, you use the term “video online world.” The term “virtual online world” is a better, and more commonly used, term for what you seem to be discussing.

]]>
By: Hungerburg https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6399 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:23:10 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6399 The notion of IP marks the step down from art to service. When reading a book, I no longer reach out of my small world, but let myself get flattered. Would it be possible for somebody to sue the publisher of her dearest novel series, if the author decides, to let her protagonist die?

]]>
By: Hungerburg https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6398 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:15:08 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6398 Everybody will remember a story from the early days of cinema, where the public fled in fear of being run over by a train. Since then people have learned to distinguish and common sense suggests, that people do it again, when time comes. The contrary is held in Cronenberg’s film “eXistenZ”, and many of Philip K. Dick’s Novels.

Another complement to “The Matrix” is John Carpenter’s “They Live.” A pessimistic scenario, where illusion is part of the physical reality and fully exploited to turn down people. His portrait seems to me right on the spot: commercial application will be the most prominent. And it only takes a pair of glasses, to learn to distinguish!

]]>
By: Maureen https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2716#comment-6397 Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:47:19 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/back_to_the_matrix.html#comment-6397 how many people have died of DVT-like illnesses related to sitting on their fannies in front of a television, sucking up the already available virtual worlds? the future is here, virtual video games are simply an extension of current technology and, IMHO, present no real new issues.

so far as social controls are concerned, experience suggests that the political system will be most interested in trying to impose social controls on virtual sexual content, and somewhat less interested in social controls on violent content, but neither is likely to be successful. for current experience with legal controls over violent video game content, see Video Software Dealers Assn v. Maleng, No. C03-1245L (W.D. Wash. July 15, 2004). The court ruled that the statute prohibiting the distribution of such games to minors was unconstitutional because it was not narrowly tailored to achieve the legislative goal of curbing hostile and antisocial behavior of youths and fostering respect for law enforcement officers. The court also found that legislative finding that the statute would protect youth from psychological desensitization and the development of aggressive feelings and behaviors was not supported by the current state of research on exposure to violent video games. The statute was also found to be unconstitutionally vague.

]]>