Comments on: The shadow of Walter Duranty https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168 2002-2015 Wed, 03 May 2006 06:38:48 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Tim Wu https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13939 Wed, 03 May 2006 06:38:48 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13939 Response to Chip. The comparison is of course exaggerated, but I think for a different reason than the one you point to.

I understand Google’s position and how they got there. Yet it true that the company does, in the end, hide things, like Duranty, on behalf of the government. One difference is the scale — the Government purges, versus, say, crackdowns on peasants or memories of Tianamen. But the basic facts: hiding information pursuant to request, are similar. Maybe another difference is that people assumed Duranty was telling the truth, and they don’t assume that of a search engine.

The whole question is whether you think search engines have ethical duties like journalists — I guess we don’t know the answer.

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By: Chip Morningstar https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13938 Tue, 02 May 2006 19:21:31 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13938 The continued presence of Google and Yahoo in China probably continue to have a corrosive effect on the regime there, even with the limitations these companies are forced to operate under, whereas Duranty was actively supporting Stalin.

It seems to me there’s a difference in moral standing between someone who, in service of his political ideals, chooses to lie to conceal the murder of 40,000,000 people, and someone who, under legal duress, reveals the identity of a handful of dissidents who are then jailed. If these two actions seem similar to you, perhaps you need to recalibrate your perceptions.

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By: Jamie Flournoy https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13937 Tue, 02 May 2006 16:47:04 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13937 I have a simple solution for Google in China:

In the USA, a results page for a search for ‘china’ has this at the top.
>Results 1 – 10 of about 2,070,000,000 for china [definition]. (0.22 seconds)

In China, it could just look like this:
>Results 1 – 10 of about 322 pages approved by censors (out of 2,070,000,000) for china [definition]. (0.22 seconds)

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By: Pikup Andropov https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13936 Tue, 02 May 2006 14:41:18 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13936 “There was just one problem. Relying on official sources, and subject to extensive censorship, Duranty’s stories soft-pedaled — or missed — the brutality of the Stalinist program.”

Kind of like current American media soft-pedals the news, relying on official sources and subject to significant editorial censorship?

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By: Nephew Sam https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13935 Tue, 02 May 2006 14:36:05 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13935 > Its fun looking at how hair-styles have changed
> over the years. But most interesting of all is the
> picture from 1931

So you missed the most important point – what was Duranty’s hairstyle?

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By: Joe Buck https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13934 Tue, 02 May 2006 14:23:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13934 I think that a distinction can be made between the actions of Google and Yahoo in China. Google is providing a censored search service. Yahoo has assisted in the arrest of at least four Chinese dissidents. The former is disagreeable but does not particularly affect the freedom of the Chinese people (who mostly use the censored Baiku search engine, not Google). The latter is anathema, and the way to avoid it is for companies to avoid any business that involves collecting personal information on citizens of repressive countries if their governments are in a position to demand that information.

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By: Matthew Skala https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13933 Tue, 02 May 2006 11:50:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13933 If that criticism is valid, then I think it also should be applied to Google’s “SafeSearch” and DMCA compliance policy.

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By: Marcel Gordon https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3168#comment-13932 Tue, 02 May 2006 11:08:55 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/05/the_shadow_of_walter_duranty.html#comment-13932 I share your doubts, Tim, but perhaps in a broader way. There is something unsettling about the primary interface to the Web – search – being in exclusively private hands. Indeed, for most of the world there is something unsettling about the primary interface to the Web being in private American hands. The difference then is the answer – in the case of China, perhaps private American hands would offer greater freedom than the Chinese government. But in the case of America, it might be a place for national governments to play a role as a positive guarantor of freedom of information, by articulating the limits on private interests. I’m sure there would be a thunderous roar from the free-market libertarians, and there is a need to articulate the basis for intervention very clearly, but I think you are touching its core: there is something very special about media.

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