Comments on: Bzzzz: seeking advice https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936 2002-2015 Sat, 07 May 2005 03:34:58 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Shane C. https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10145 Sat, 07 May 2005 03:34:58 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10145 Two corrections and an apology, with the clarity of hindsight (and the absence of adrenalin):

First: The questionable ethics of one “BzzReport of the Month” as I described them here are, as has since been explained by Dave Balter, a reflection of an earlier and looser code of conduct than the one BzzAgent was operating under at the time of my comment. (That this sort of thing is an evolutionary process for most new businesses I understand completely, and that the difference in the “currently expected” conduct was not disclosed explicitly on that page is something I trust, in good faith, that they will be reviewing in the near future.)

Second: The fact that that page was pulled a day *before* the announcement of their new (and substantially improved) code of conduct, rather than the day of or the day after, I can certainly excuse given the exceptional circumstances of the past week.

And finally and most importantly: my concluded accusations of a “whitewash” and “coverup” in that comment were, in light of these facts, unfounded and unfair, …and the raw emotion with which I stated them was uncalled for under any circumstance. My apologies to Dave Balter and BzzAgent for my vitriolic and unjustified attack…and my apologies to anyone who read and participated in this thread for damaging and detracting from, rather than supporting and contributing to, the more level-headed ideas/opinions/beliefs that were expressed in this discussion.

]]>
By: JohnFen https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10144 Thu, 05 May 2005 22:15:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10144 “This was actually working.”

I don’t think anybody was doubting the effectiveness of it. People were doubting the ethics of it and were worried that the fact that many people have issues with BzzAgent would cause those people to also have issues with CC.

]]>
By: Dev Purkayastha https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10143 Thu, 05 May 2005 13:13:48 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10143 (Hi. I’m a web developer for BzzAgent, but am also a big CC partisan first & foremost.)

“People who don’t care about something promoting it as if they really did. That’s awful.”

I don’t think this is fair, because we’re presuming that they’re just pimping/shilling the CC idea. I’ve taken a look at the reports that were coming in, and there’s real enthusiasm for the ideas behind CC – the actual ideas mind you. And, I saw some really great dialogues going on – spreading CC ideas to budding law students, to composers, to musicians. This was actually working.

]]>
By: hb IV https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10142 Thu, 05 May 2005 12:05:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10142 great blog! big fan.
you may want to see the new viral psa going around For Mothers Day,
for a good cause.
http://ForMothersDay.com

]]>
By: mattl https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10141 Thu, 05 May 2005 11:09:42 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10141 Nelson, I’m reading this far 😉

It seems like a really bad idea to me. People who don’t care about something promoting it as if they really did. That’s awful.

Let’s put our collective energies into producing materials for people who really, honestly care about this, to encourage others to do the same. This is what I do every day, and when I see people I’ve spoken to about it, encouraging and involving others to do the same – that’s better than any ‘prize’ offered by a website, but if people really need a prize – email me and I’ll see what I can do 😉

]]>
By: Nelson Pavlosky https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10140 Thu, 05 May 2005 02:00:15 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10140 Oh, not that anyone cares, but I remember how we got from litigation and amusement parks to free culture… we were discussing whether the amount of crazy people and random violence had increased over the past century, or whether it was constant. I then was going to be like, well, let’s go back and look at TV over the last century, and then I realized that this was impossible, largely because copyright laws don’t permit it. If copyright were only 28 years, we’d be able to see a far broader range of film and TV on Archive.org than we do today, and comparing violence on TV in the 1950’s to violence on TV today would be a trivial exercise for anyone with a broadband internet connection. That’s how I started talking about Archive.org, and then Creative Commons.

So, it was really a natural evolution of the conversation 🙂

]]>
By: Nelson Pavlosky https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10139 Thu, 05 May 2005 01:49:47 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10139 After significant thought, I’ve decided to recommend that Creative Commons terminate its relationship with BzzAgent. (It’s likely that nobody is still reading this far down in the comments, but oh well.) The catalyst for this decision was my experience with promoting Creative Commons tonight.

I was standing in the hallway of my dorm, talking to some people who were visiting because they lived on this hall last year. We had a long, philosophical discussion about our litigious society and how it makes certain amusement park rides impossible.

Eventually (I forget exactly how), the conversation turned to free culture, because it is a fundamental part of my philosophy and I think about it all the time as a co-founder of FreeCulture.org. I told them about open source software, DRM, the DMCA, copyright extensions, etc. Then the conversation turned to archiving material, with sites like Archive.org, and I naturally wanted to talk about Creative Commons licenses at that point. I realized at that point it would be easier for me to show them the “Get Creative” video on my computer than explaining CC myself, so I invited them into my room and we watched it together. Finally, since I have a crapload of Creative Commons propaganda lying around my room from the FreeCulture.org booth at the college activities fair, I gave them some CC buttons to take home with them.

At some point, I started feeling like a salesman. The only thing that kept me from creeping myself out was that I knew that the only reason I was “selling” this stuff so hard was because I honestly care about it, and it came up naturallly because it is part of my life, my philosophy, my worldview. I also knew that although my “selling” Creative Commons to them might be a little weird, they know that I’m just a bit of a crazy activist, and they felt educated and informed afterwards and interested in signing up to our mailing list.

But if they knew that there were BzzAgents running around promoting stuff, they would be more suspicious of me. If I were a BzzAgent, I would be more suspicious of my own motives, and worried that I am becoming an actual salesman. Even if I am not a BzzAgent, I would worry about them interpreting my “selling” of Creative Commons as the actions of a paid “shill”, and I would be more reserved and paranoid about reaching out to people.

Whether or not BzzAgents deserve a reputation as paid “shills”, that’s what they look like at first glance to many people, and I don’t want my activism to be questioned in that manner, I don’t want people wondering if when I act like a salesman I’m really a salesman.

Please terminate the partnership in order to avoid casting suspicion on enthusiastic activists such as myself.

]]>
By: Simon Pole https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10138 Thu, 05 May 2005 01:49:17 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10138 Corante calls this “the systemic flaw” in BzzAgents — that it “attracts people who are wannabee manipulators.”

And the whole point of CC, is not to manipulate people, not to control them, but allow people to have a place where they can make their own choices for themselves and their community.

]]>
By: ericb https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10137 Thu, 05 May 2005 01:31:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10137 – or, not!

]]>
By: ericb https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2936#comment-10136 Thu, 05 May 2005 01:26:48 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/05/bzzzz_seeking_advice.html#comment-10136 Allen-Edmonds vs. Johnston & Murphy! It just goes to show how well the Bzz is propagating!

]]>