Comments on: A New Marriage Decision (for Heterosexuals) https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980 2002-2015 Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:25:01 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: db https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10680 Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:25:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10680 Even though we had a ceremony in CT, my wife & I were legally married in MA for precisely this reason. How could we join a club that excluded members of our own families?

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By: Marc Perkel https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10679 Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:02:38 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10679 Marriage itself is a fraud. In theory it’s also a lifelong commitment. But in reality it’s just a bad proprty agreement that gives everything you own to two law firms if the relationship fails. Be careful what you ask for because you might get it.

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By: Dave Mason https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10678 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:19:25 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10678 There are both religious and civil (meaning government) marriage. Both are often called ‘marriage’ causing some confusion. Religious marriage is not a government institution, and it the sole provence of each religion. Civil marriage is a government institution and confers many rights (some 1400 specifically), and should not have anything to do with religion. So let’s call all government marriages “‘civil unions’ and only call people married if their union involved a religious ceremony.

BTW government marriages were first created in Europe during the reins of the Royal families as a way to control property and inheritances….had nothing to do with religion or love for that matter, but it was a legal contract.

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By: DMY https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10677 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:15:02 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10677 For the life of me, I can’t understand all of the controversy surrounding this issue (gay marriage). Afterall, marriage is a religious ceremony. It’s not a govenmental entitlement. Since it is a religious ceremony, let the church decide. Federal and State legislatures should avoid this issue, as it breaches the separation of church and state.

Such legislation would be akin to legislating baptism over sprinkling, or circumcision, or who was qualified to preach. These are all religious rites which do not belong in legislation.

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By: D.B. https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10676 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 15:46:02 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10676 The “marry in Massachusetts and return home” argument is very weak. That gays and lesbians are prohibited from having a marriage ceremony in 49 states is the least of the discrimination. What really matters is the wholesale exclusion from hundreds of governmental benefits available under state and federal law to heterosexual couples after the ceremony is over. Has Ayers given up all the benefits he and his wife receive under CT and federal law? If not, whatever his protests, he is still riding at the front of the segregared bus.

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By: A. Nony Mouse https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10675 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:31:36 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10675 *sigh* I’ve noticed that Brown and Ayres don’t seem to be commenting much, and I’m sorry to think that it might be because of something I said which was construed to mean something like the hatefulness posted by Jonathan Barker. Unfortunately, people like me, in an act of… bad generalization?… are mistaken for people like him. Once again, sorry to all if I offended. You can go back and read the “Gay like me” thread if you want a further clarification, which might offend you… Sorry…

Mr. Harker: I think you’ll notice that whichever God you chose to worship doesn’t go around condemning people to “burn in Hell” a whole lot. You might want to think about that before you do…

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By: Matthew Skala https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10674 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:59:59 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10674 Even if you wanted to marry someone of the same race, wouldn’t you consider traveling to a neighboring state that did not discriminate?

No, I wouldn’t. That would be a silly, pointless gesture, with no significant effect on anything that mattered.

You seem to be claiming that by not travelling out-of-state to get married (when my home state was willing to do it locally), I’d be implicitly offering some kind of support for my home state’s policies. I don’t think that is the case; and even if there were some implicit statement involved, it would be so attenuated as to be practically worthless. The home state’s marriage license department doesn’t keep a statistic of “number of people who were eligible to marry here but went somewhere else because our discriminatory policies (not against them) made that a moral imperetive”. They would have no way of knowing that number even if they cared about it. Things might be different if marriage licenses were a significant source of revenue for states – but they aren’t.

The morally right thing to do would be get married locally and use your *vote*, and other normal resources of democratic change possibly backed up by the money you’d otherwise have been willing to spend on the meaningless travel, to work on changing the home state’s policy – or, if the home state’s policy is so deeply immoral as to make that course of action intolerable (I don’t think restrictions on other people getting married would fall into that category for me, though combined with other discrimination they might), then leave permanently.

That said: I might well consider not getting married *at all*, if I thought that the institution had been turned into something I didn’t want to be part of…

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By: Jonathan Barker https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10673 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:48:44 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10673 I think Ian Ayres is an evil man. I hope he burns in Hell for his blasphemy.

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By: Alfred Thompson https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10672 Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:27:38 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10672 So what then is the question for those who do not agree with you that homosexual marriage is moral? Should they refuse to get married in states where homeosexual marriage is legal? I think you are supporting the notion that making homosexual marriage legal is somehow connected in a way that can help or harm heterosexual marriage. This seems to me a mistake.

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By: Peter Rock https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2980#comment-10671 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:18:30 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2005/06/a_new_marriage_decision_for_he.html#comment-10671 Very interesting.

Imagine too, when you invite diverse family backgrounds to the wedding and explain why you are driving/flying X kilometers (“miles” in america I suppose) away instead of gathering locally. It’s quite a statement to your social circle.

Makes me want to have a re-wedding with my current spouse. 🙂

Interesting idea. Thank you.

I was thinking about how archaic some of the united states is in regards to same-sex marriage. And then I get things into perspective — forget legalizing marriage… as far as I know, if I have homosexual sex where I live I can face a prison term of up to 5 years. As well, I may be fined up to several hundred US dollars. This is probably not completely accurate as I am an expatriate – it’s more likely that I would be heavily “fined” and then extradited. But still, things are much worse elsewhere compared to the united states.

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