Comments on: and then things got ugly https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625 2002-2015 Fri, 10 Oct 2008 04:26:50 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: dm https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25627 Fri, 10 Oct 2008 04:26:50 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25627 Brad Templeton: I agree that McCain’s erstwhile regret over the Keating scandal spoke well of him — as recently as a few years ago. Now? In response to the Obama campaign bringing it up again? “It was a political smear job” (see URL referenced below, which begins very much as your comment does) — not the material from the Obama campaign, but original Keating investigation. Seemingly, he no longer regrets it. One wonders if he ever did, or if he saw the political value in contrition.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Engaging_on_Keating.html

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By: Rook https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25626 Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:50:28 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25626 I think this may be part of a standoff behind the scenes. Something along the lines of the Obama campaign threatening the McCain campaign not to release Ayers or they’ll hit on Keating; not to touch Michelle or they’ll release something on Cindy; not to pull an October surprise because they have one of their own. With McCain having called the bluff and hit on Ayers, the Obama campaign was forced to either back up their ultimatum or let McCain think he could get away with anything. This was probably meant to stem a flow of much worse dirt and retaliation.

Just a hunch on my part.

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By: Nerd42 https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25625 Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:14:50 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25625 I guess criticizing the associates of the candidate you dislike is “hard-hitting-and-fair criticism” but if it’s about the candidate you like, then it’s “hard-hitting-and-unfair criticism”.

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By: Elizabeth https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25624 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:25:45 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25624 Unbelievable. Not that this happened in the ’80s — I knew about it then — but the response that maybe Obama has gone too far, we have to be careful of the spin, etc. Have we not grown up at all in the past two weeks?

We need facts right now. And yes, the Democrats also contributed to our current problems. But the fact is, McCain “couldn’t even get Keating right.”

I agree with Lessig when he says that the surprising thing is not that this came out but that it came out so late. That Obama had to be apparently pushed by the Palin accusation into mentioning the Keating 5. I was mentioning it last spring and summer. It was like being in outer space, where no one can hear you scream. Oh, that was a long time ago. He’s reformed from all that. He was a minor player in it, and he got out before it became really illegal. All lame excuses for a guy who doesn’t see what’s before him. He sees only ideologies and rhetoric and symbols and loyalty and some weird idea of “honor.”

How anyone could want eight more years of that laundry list of horrors is beyond me. It plugs into a damaged part of ourselves.

By the way, I’m still waiting for Lessig to respond to the Saturday Night Live bailout skit that was “re-edited” “for legal reasons.” While the lawyers were scrambling yesterday, the thing went viral all over the ‘net. So much for damage control. When I saw the edited version, I was surprised that it merely omitted the place accompanied by the caption “People who should be shot.” If the Sandlers, the couple depicted there, had any grounds for libel, it would be in the factual dialogue about how they allegedly swindled Wachovia Bank into buying subprime mortgage assets, because they have not yet been formally charged. That’s still in there. The only thing missing is the perfectly legal opinion, presented as a joke, as to what we “should” do to people who do this.

Legal reasons, my eye.

I remembered “Free Culture” and the lack of archiving requirements for broadcasting companies, who rent the public airwaves and then piously cite copyright law when people want access to their archives. They could actually, legally, destroy everything. Or re-edit anything — in effect, rewriting history.

Postscript about NBC: when it re-posted its “edited” version of the SNL skit, it stuck an ad in there. Just to remind us little folks who writes the rules around here. Don’t forget to buy stuff.

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By: Elizabeth https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25623 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:25:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25623 Unbelievable. Not that this happened in the ’80s — I knew about it then — but the response that maybe Obama has gone too far, we have to be careful of the spin, etc. Have we not grown up at all in the past two weeks?

We need facts right now. And yes, the Democrats also contributed to our current problems. But the fact is, McCain “couldn’t even get Keating right.”

I agree with Lessig when he says that the surprising thing is not that this came out but that it came out so late. That Obama had to be apparently pushed by the Palin accusation into mentioning the Keating 5. I was mentioning it last spring and summer. It was like being in outer space, where no one can hear you scream. Oh, that was a long time ago. He’s reformed from all that. He was a minor player in it, and he got out before it became really illegal. All lame excuses for a guy who doesn’t see what’s before him. He sees only ideologies and rhetoric and symbols and loyalty and some weird idea of “honor.”

How anyone could want eight more years of that laundry list of horrors is beyond me. It plugs into a damaged part of ourselves.

By the way, I’m still waiting for Lessig to respond to the Saturday Night Live bailout skit that was “re-edited” “for legal reasons.” While the lawyers were scrambling yesterday, the thing went viral all over the ‘net. So much for damage control. When I saw the edited version, I was surprised that it merely omitted the place accompanied by the caption “People who should be shot.” If the Sandlers, the couple depicted there, had any grounds for libel, it would be in the factual dialogue about how they allegedly swindled Wachovia Bank into buying subprime mortgage assets, because they have not yet been formally charged. That’s still in there. The only thing missing is the perfectly legal opinion, presented as a joke, as to what we “should” do to people who do this.

Legal reasons, my eye.

I remembered “Free Culture” and the lack of archiving requirements for broadcasting companies, who rent the public airwaves and then piously cite copyright law when people want access to their archives. They could actually, legally, destroy everything. Or re-edit anything — in effect, rewriting history.

Postscript about NBC: when it re-posted its “edited” version of the SNL skit, it stuck an ad in there. Just to remind us little folks who writes the rules around here. Don’t forget to buy stuff.

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By: Ryan Petty https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25622 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:39:51 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25622 Or McCain could counter with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Although not directly linking Obama, it shows that Democrats have failed to properly oversee and regulate during the S&L times (4 of the Keating 5 were Democrats) and now with Fannie and Freddie.

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By: Bill Moore https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25621 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:24:40 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25621 Unfortunately, the Republican’s have learned that the human mind is more enthralled by negatives than positives. It raises a fight/flight reaction that stays with us far longer than feel good news. That’s largely why the nightly news is 95% negative. It’s what people want to watch.

Obama has no choice but to counter. It’s stupid, it sucks, I hate it and I don’t want it but I know.. I just KNOW that he has no choice.

He might as well talk about the Palin/secessionist party connection – an Alaska based party her husband belonged to for 7 years that espoused armed resistance of the US government and creating a new country called Alaska. And that she’s a tax evader. And that McCain likes to call his wife a c*nt in public (well documented) and how McCain crashed 5 planes, and the incident where he did a purposeful ‘wet’ takeoff (a boneheaded hotshot trick consisting of pooling fuel to blow a huge flame into the face of the plane behind him) which set off a missile on that plane and resulted in the the death of 167 men…. (and on and on).

God I hate the last 30 days.

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By: Mark https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25620 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:50:14 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25620 Presenting the Keating Five story with a web site seems smart. It gets the story out there, but it provides no sound bites or video clips of an angry candidate for the media to use.

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By: Ajay https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25619 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 04:36:27 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25619 While I find the negative attacks odious as well, I don’t think Obama has any choice in this matter.
It is very shameful for Palin to dredge up the Ayers non-issue, when she herself has been linked with the Alaska Independence Party, a known secessionist outfit; their leader refused to be buried in the US, under the American flag. Palin’s husband was a member of this party for some time; and she gave the opening address at their annual convention this year.

The problem is: the electorate are being scared into not voting for Obama. Using coded references, they (McCain/Palin) are trying to scare the voters on issues such as race (“he doesn’t see America like you and I do”) or religion (“he could be a muslim”).

So Obama has no choice but to hit back, and hit back hard.

For all the people who are hand-wringing about this latest turn of events: look what good taking the high road did to Kerry. He got slaughtered. Keep taking the high road, and keep losing. Or hit back and hit back hard, and stand a chance. Your call.

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By: Kathryn Cramer https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3625#comment-25618 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 03:42:24 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/10/and_then_things_got_ugly.html#comment-25618 I have tried to say as little about Barack Obama as possible during this campaign, because although I plan to vote for him and did send his campaign ten bucks because Michael Chabon told me to, every time I look closely at his positions on issues, I feel like he ought to be on the other side of the party line. To me he seems like a plausible opposition candidate. He’s basically a centrist, and in the US the “center” is pretty far right. I have looked longingly from the sidelines wishing I could be as enthusiastic as some of my friends and have kept my mouth shut about Obama more than I like.

The Keating Economics was the first thing I’ve seen out of his campaign that has made me really enthusiastic and made me feel on the same wavelength with his supporter. Go Obama!

I should say also that my fiscally conservative republican husband was also favorably impressed by it, especially in its intimacy and management of tone.

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