Comments on: lessig the fascist? https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205 2002-2015 Wed, 28 May 2003 05:51:03 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: mark https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1481 Wed, 28 May 2003 05:51:03 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1481 I agree with Lessig’s point that constitutional restrictions can’t be ignored only to achieve harmonization (or to increase competitive position), of course I agree I would almost say.

But what interests me (perhaps because I’m European) is whether the majority of commercially interesting works had longer protection in EU or in VS before the CTEA (and how’s this balance after the CTEA). Maybe this would help to see who is leading this Race of developing ‘weapons’ of copyright protection (or maybe in Lessig’s view: ‘Weapons of Massive Free Culture Destruction’…).

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By: Fuzzy https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1480 Tue, 27 May 2003 23:15:45 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1480

I believe there�s significant good in having uniform laws on patents and copyrights world-wide, even if they�re less than ideal.

You keep saying that like it is a fact. First I don’t accept it as a fact and second the CTEA did not create uniform laws world-wide, so it does not even get points for this, even if your statement was true. Instead the CTEA has just left us with non-uniform, terrible (far, far, far, far from ideal) laws on the copyrights.

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By: Fuzzy https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1479 Tue, 27 May 2003 23:08:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1479 Excuse me, but just because *this* US Supreme Court ruled the CTEA is constitutional does not kill the horse. The US Supreme Court does not try to claim to be error free (thankfully) and even then just because something is “constitutional” does not mean it is right. In Brown v. Board of Education a court reversed the decision of another court in Plessy v Ferguson. And should we still be stuck with rulings like Takao Ozawa v. United States which held that Japanese could not become citizens or U.S. vs Bhagat Singh Thind where the Supreme Court rules that Asian Indians are ineligible for citizinship? No, I think not.

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By: Richard Bennett https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1478 Tue, 27 May 2003 17:21:20 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1478 The court ruled, quite decisively, that the CTEA is constitutional, so I don’t see much sense in beating that horse.

Legislation is a balancing of interests and principles, and sometimes this exercise is quite complex. Attributing motives to the Congress is often a very satisfying avocation, but, like calling your opponent in debate a “fascist”, it’s ultimately not productive. Let’s stick to the effects of the legislation, and leave the motives to the shrinks.

I believe there’s significant good in having uniform laws on patents and copyrights world-wide, even if they’re less than ideal. Is this wrong? Certainly, we’d all prefer to have ideal and uniform laws, but in the real world that never happens. So viewed against that backdrop, the US’s influence on Singapore to get with the US program on copyright can legitimately be viewed as progress, esp. in light of Singapore’s history.

YMMV.

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By: Lessig https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1477 Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1477 Is harmonization a legitimate governmental interest? Of course it is. Is it sufficient to overcome the constitution? Of course it is not. If Europe decided copyrights should be perpetual, harmonizing on that standard would not evade the constitutional limitation that terms be “limited.”

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By: mark https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1476 Tue, 27 May 2003 15:53:06 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1476 The way mr. Bennet puts it, with the word ‘ignorant’ followed by a (highly) debatable opinion presented as a (practically scientific) fact, I don’t find that interesting (and killing any debate in advance).

What I do find interesting is how strongly the 70 yrs PMA that is “harmonized”, is deemed a relevant factor by the Court (and the parties for that fact, see the quotes, why did Lessig mention the agreeing with Europeans, as if the Europeans had longer copyright protection, at least on a -commercially- important aspect?).

I mean, can it not be said that your above reaction only proves that if the Act would have had the goal of harmonization, it failed to achieve this goal. But this proof leaves still the possibility that the lead of EU’s 70 yrs PMA has paved the way for the Act and/or the Eldred decision?

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By: Lessig https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1475 Tue, 27 May 2003 12:26:07 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1475 The issue here is why the US enacted CTEA — not why might they have enacted it, but why did they. Mr. Bennett claimed that I was “ignorant” because I didn’t know that the “US extended the term of copyright to harmonize with the EU.” That is an assertion about motive. Call that motive 1. The contrary motive that might explain the extension is to maximize the profit of those who were lobbying for the extension, whether or not it harmonized. Call that motive 2.

The question Seth asks is: if Congress were so keen on motive 1, why did they extend the term for works for hire, when extending the term for works for hire only increased disharmony? And as he rightly concludes, the fact that they increased the disharmony for works made for hire (which is consistent with motive 2 and not motive 1) again makes motive 1 less likely. Thus the data support the conclusion that it is motive 2 and not motive 1 that explains the CTEA.

The point is so obvious that it is astonishing to me that anyone would debate it. Whether you like CTEA or not, whether you like the fact that 3 more categories of copyright are harmonized or not, whether you like the idea that the public domain is tolled for 20 years or not, whether you think that 3 out of 20 is harmonization or not, there is no intellectually credible way to say that Congress was extending the terms to harmonize.

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By: Richard Bennett https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1474 Mon, 26 May 2003 19:14:36 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1474 Re: monopoly vs. harmony, I’d argue there’s a third principle at work, namely “consistency”. Principles of good statutory construction dictate that regulations for similar activities should be similar, but we find that copyright law applies radically different time lines to copyrights of different categories, for no apparent reason. Shouldn’t copyright be capable of summary as the term of copyright is X years, with exceptions for fair use, and extendable for another X years on application? But we don’t have that – we have all these different terms depending on the medium, the number of holders, the nature of the holders, etc, etc, etc. It’s a real disaster simply from the standpoint of consistency and simplicity, even without the Doctrine of Laches complications and all that.

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By: Richard Bennett https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1473 Mon, 26 May 2003 19:07:53 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1473 I delete comments off my blog when I judge them spam or obscene, but not if they’re merely trollish or provocative. We all have our own standards, and we’re entitled to have our own standards. It’s no big deal unless our standards contradict our POV, as would be the case if a First Amendment activist was to delete comments simply because they argued against his analysis. But we’ve already established that didn’t happen here. Either I made a mistake – user error – or there’s a bug in the software. Right now, I’m leaning toward “bug”.

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By: Curt Siffert https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2205#comment-1472 Mon, 26 May 2003 17:57:46 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/lessig_the_fascist.html#comment-1472 This might seem like a tangent, but it bugs me that this isn’t discussed. Why is deleting a comment fascist? This weblog isn’t a government agency. Deleting a comment from some yahoo isn’t fascism or censorship. If an anti-censorship person allows themselves to become convinced that they can’t delete a comment off their own weblog, they’re just opening themselves up to manipulation by someone who wants to push the limits by posting something unproductive just so they can scream censorship and hypocrisy if it gets removed. It’s Lessig’s blog, he can delete whatever the hell he wants to protect the integrity of his points and the discussion it yields. Lessig’s comment link is an invitation, not a right.

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