Comments on: Shloss v. Joyce https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195 2002-2015 Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:40:41 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: LL https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14228 Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:40:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14228 The views here on ‘fair use’ make me feel like the definition is up for debate.

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By: Sydney https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14227 Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:32:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14227 The Joyce case will set a standard for future cases.

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By: Sean J Murphy https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14226 Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:26:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14226 One can only sympathise with a scholar who wishes to cite sources without restriction in order to support an argument. However, the forces endeavouring to wrest control of a valuable commodity from the Joyce Estate may not be entirely pure in their motivations. See my account of the murky business of the trade in Joyce manuscripts of uncertain not to say suspicious provenance: http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/irhismys/joyce.htm

Sean J Murphy

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By: Roger Lathbury https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14225 Fri, 07 Jul 2006 16:25:49 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14225 Whatever the rights of S. Joyce in respect to material by or about his mentally disturbed aunt may be, he has, in so far as the case of his grandfather’s book “Ulysses” is concerned, no rights whatsoever, as I see it. Although publishers and the estate of James Joyce have obfuscated the matter, it is, I believe, the case that “Ulysses” since September 1922 has not been in copyright in the United States and has always been, from a strictly legal perspective (although not from a moral one–see below), in the public domain.

The copyright act of 1909 governed the protection of “Ulysses” when Sylvia Beach put out the first edition in February 1922. That act stated that if a book in English was not published in America within six months of its appearance abroad, copyright claim was forfeited. “Ulysses,” deemed obscene, could not be put out in America until more than a decade after its original appearance. Therefore, the original text has been in the public domain since September 1922.

In 1934 Random House published “Ulysses” and paid Joyce and, afterward, his estate, royalties. Random enjoyed tacit exclusive rights to this work for this courageous action. What explicit legal rights it held remained unclear. The copyright page for the 1934 Random printing is confusing. It lists several dates, including ones for separate sections of the novel that appeared in Margaret Anderson’s “Little Review,” as well as the date of 1934 for Random House itself.

What, however, does that 1934 copyright by Random cover? It cannot pertain to the text of the original edition, for that had been in the public domain for twelve years. Random’s copyright can apply only to the textual changes (some erroneous) introduced into its edition and to the special matter added when the book appeared in the United States–e. g., James Joyce’s letter to Bennett Cerf in the prefatory material.

No person of probity would wish to deprive Joyce or his heirs of money due. All reputable publishers have followed the law with respect to “Ulysses.” Joyce and his estate have reaped fair benefits from “Ulysses.” Now it is time that “Ulysses,” like “The Waste Land” and “The Beautiful and Damned” and “Babbitt” and all works published in 1922, enter the public domain. Obviously Joyce’s grandson, however rebarbative, must be accorded the privileges allowed by the law, but no reason exists any more for publishers to hold back on putting out editions–scholarly, adaptive, inexpensive, or illustrated–of Joyce’s twentieth century masterwork.

To the extent that the Joyce estate’s actions depend upon definding the copyright of “Ulysses,” it has no solid ground whatever to stand on.

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By: CMN https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14224 Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:48:38 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14224 To answer Gene and icecow, fair use is a statutory limitation on the scope of the exclusive rights granted by the Copyright Act. You can read the relevant statutory language here: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Fair use has never been held to be a constitutional right; because it has always existed as a matter of statutory or common law, the question whether it is required by the Constitution has never come up. If Congress were to amend the statute tomorrow to abolish fair use, one can imagine that many (including probably the host of this blog) would argue that without fair use the Copyright Act did violate the First Amendment right to free speech. They would probably have a strong argument, but not a self-evident one, as copyright protects only certain fixed expressions, not ideas.

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By: icecow https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14223 Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:14:54 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14223 statement:
Fair Use is a defense, not a grant of right under the Constitution—correct?

answer:
My understanding is a ‘fair use defense’ is a trademark term, not a copyright term, and that ‘fair use’ as applied to copyright is a 100% constitutional right, an element of free speech.

Without copyright ‘fair use’ eventually nothing could be written. every snippet of thought would be digitized in to phrases and speech would grind to gridlocked stop. We all can feel the gridlock’s building pressure as text and media continues to shift to the digital realm at creation.

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By: Anthony Osborne https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14222 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:41:38 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14222 The irony concerning Stephen Joyce’s policing of Joyce’s memory is that he is engaged in acts of outright censorship – fair enough if he wants to make sure he’s getting revenue owed him, or wants to protect Joyce’s good name, but the way he has stiffled debate and academic work is scandalous – and most unJoycean. It is also damaging the growth of Joyce studies … which his sainted grandfather would have never sanctioned.
Hope you win.

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By: Gene McCallon https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14221 Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:53:24 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14221 Fair Use is a defense, not a grant of right under the Constitution–correct?

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By: CMN https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14220 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:53:29 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14220 Are their views on some points divergent?

Shloss dissents openly from Joyce’s view on the legitimacy of academic and archival self help while Joyce dissents tacitly from Shloss’s views on suppresion of the influence of hebephrenic balletics on the paternal literature, citing both the existence of altenative methodologies for flaying felines and the dissheveled plumage of certain migratory Columbidae upon return to their habitation in the territory sobrinamed auric.

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By: Tom Maddox https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3195#comment-14219 Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:56:30 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/06/shloss_v_joyce.html#comment-14219 Best wishes, Larry to you and the Center on this one. It’s an amazing instance of copyright law having a crippling effect on our shared culture.

I’ve just written about it here: James Joyce, the Dog in the Manger, and Lawrence Lessig.

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