I really needed a laugh today and this just got me. Been laughing for five minutes. Granny, If I lived in NH, you would have my vote just for that.

Thank you!

Luckily, there will always be jobs that require less intelligence than designing nuclear power plants.

You sure about that, Max?

Anyhow, for the record, I have no problem “legislating morality,” since nearly all laws are based on a sense of right and wrong (and it’s hardto find a better rationale for a law). I even support the ethics codes lawyers must follow, even though I don’t agree with the concepts of right and wrong that the ethics are based on.

However, I ususally prefer labeling products as compared to banning them. Label unhealthy foods, label indecent programming, label inappropriate movies, etc.

I loved quotes like edromar’s, which had the effect of comparing market supporters the Confederacy:

/* She is in the progressive tradition that arose in New England prior to the Civil War and would not allow her fellowman to be enslaved and exploited in the South. … So listen closely to the whispers from the past gathering to the force of lightning as she snaps at nonsense.
*/

Rob made an error similar to my quick summation that Granny D would regulate the market away:

/* It�s bad if you�re one of the people that doesn�t have that knowledge. Forgotten in this whole debate is the bare fact that relatively few people have the aptitude, inclination, or desire to design, build and maintain an enterprise router or nuclear power plant.
*/

Luckily, there will always be jobs that require less intelligence than designing nuclear power plants.

Lorrin said:

/* In reality remembering that Nike and Walmart are evil is about the limit of most consumer�s willingness to spend time on memorizing factoids about labor and environmental conditions in far away places. I would argue that most Americans would prefer *not* to have their purchases support sweat shops and environmental destruction but the research task in determining, for example, how picking a Kyocera vs. a Samsung phone relates to those issues is too daunting a task.
*/

If that’s the case, should our government “legislate morality” on consumers? If it’s not a big enough issue with the people making the purchase, why should the government get involved?

More to the point, about ten years ago laws banning net-caught tuna (because the nets were hazardous to dolphins) were ruled violations of international law. Laws permitting tuna caught in dolphin-friendly ways to be labeled as such, however, were enough to cut down on net-caught tuna.

Oh, and I picked Nike because of its recent close encounter with the Supreme Court because of a false advertising case regarding statements Nike made about its labor practices that the Court took up, befire deciding that the case wasn’t ready to be ruled on.

/* Max, you also seem to be arguing that simply by buying goods from companies that mistreat their workers and harm the environment we promote ethical worker treatment and environmental stewardship.
*/

I’m arguing that as Mexico’s economy improves because of the NAFTA jobs that were sent south of the border, Mexican workers demand better pay, better working conditions, etc.

I am aware that ten years ago, a day’s salary in Brazil brought the average worker enough money to buy two pounds of meat. Now it buys four pounds. Is it up to US standards? No. Is it an improvement? Yes. Why? Because the people involved are savvy, intelligent, and look out for themselves. Are the Chinese any less intelligent, savvy, or interested in their own well-being?

/* Max, the problem with letting each country decide it�s own environmental policies is the classic �tragedy of the commons�. Each country can give it�s own industry a boost by reducing or ignoring environmental regulations. Since there is no world government to step in (the classic �fix� for the commons issue), each country needs to influence its neighbors.
*/

I’m not sure this qualifies as a tragedy of the commons, but I see your point.

I haven’t traveled the world. However, something tells me people know how to negotiate pretty well. Again, I know Brazil has laws to prevent destruction of the rain forest, and works hard to enforce those laws. I know most African countries work hard to stop poaching. In these cases, I think we ought to see how we can help enforce those laws.

I also know that many countries can be enticed into having low environmental standards when they are trying to bring in businesses, but after a while people start to worry about the same things we worry about. They know how to speak up for themselves, so I’m not convinced that we have to speak up for them.

Ultimately government should accept the reality of the global marketplace and help get us through it. The problem I see with “fair trade” people is that they spend time in a futile effort to preserve jobs that will get harder and more costly to keep here. As an anxious (but successful) computer programmer – I could join an angry lobbying group to try to stop outsourcing to India. But instead, I am working really hard to find clever ways to adapt to the international marketplace. Why can’t my government do the same?

�Abraham Lincoln

There is no such “idyllic” life with out-houses as you imagine, and no leisure for most of them to get the education or engage in the thought that would give them the chance to realize that their only hope is to rise up in violence of one sort or another when one pied piper or another comes along piping tunes about the salvation of their god or political movement. Only to the extent the educated and developed nations realize that there but for the grace of history go we, is there any chance to reign in the parasites of this earth who seek nothing more than maximum profits from the maximum expolitation a people will sustain before they go ballistic and resort to their only option, terroristic violence.

Those idyllic pictures of “happy” “darkies” on the banks of the Suwanee prior to the Civil War were taken from a distance that didn’t show the exhausted limbs lying in pain from 12 hours of slave labor, hoping to catch a catfish to supplement the starvation allotment of gruel provided for their minimal susenance. You who look at life from the distance of the safe ivory tower fail to see the pain being inflicted on people.

It is like the plane spotters who see a group of people fleeing a building in Baghdad during an assault against that position and who assume that those must be the guilty fleeing. So they blow them away by the dozens and then wonder why the Iraqi people resent us as they mourn their friends in the wedding party. Those who try to deal with questions from a distance without being in the midst of life of those they make claims about, make very foolish claims. So go shut your self in your outhouse and wait for some plane sent by some corporate power to blow you away, and then tell us how iddylic that life is.