Comments on: The silent five https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115 2002-2015 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:40:41 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: assman https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-867 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:40:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-867 I had to post again because Lessig cynical manipulation of the truth has mad me very angry.

Let me see if I can summarize the stupidity of Lessig’s position. He basically says that the supreme court should abrogate one of the powers the constitution explicitly gives the supreme court (namely the power to regulate copyright). They should do this in the name of state’s rights. Of course Lessig doesn’t actually believe in state’s rights. Rather he believes in a large federal government. So he also thinks that the supreme court should give the federal government powers it was never explicitly given by the federal government and which are therefore reserved to the states like the power to outlaw discrimination. In sum, Lessig believes we should read the constitution and do the exact opposite of what it says. Lessig than goes own to criticize the supreme court because he didn’t get his way. He considers it a violation of principle for the supreme court to actually follow the constitution. Namely the supreme court is violating the principle of limiting the power of the federal government to the greatest extent possible which BTW is a principle that Lessig never believed in the first place. In was just a principle Lessig decided to cynically exploit in order to get his way. The only problem with this principle is the supreme court never actually believed in it themselves. They instead followed the principle that YOU SHOULD DO WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS. This principle implies that you give to the federal government the powers it is supposed to have according to the constitution. Nothing more and nothing less.

]]>
By: assm https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-866 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:25:46 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-866 Lawrence your an idiot. Federalism is about giving the federal government the powers they are supposed to get according to the constitution and nothing more. The constitution gives the federal government the power to regulate copyrights EXPLICITLY. It is in the constitution. Read it.

On the other hand there is nothing in the constitution that says the federal government has the right to outlaw discrimination as in the civil rights act. In fact the first civil rights act was declared unconstitutional in 1875 when the supreme court actually believed in the constitution. Most of the New Deal legislation is also unconstitutional. NONE OF THESE THINGS POWERS GIVEN TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THE CONSTITUTION. The power to regulate copyright is a power the federal government is explicity given. So I don’t see why your complaining. If anything the court is being too liberal. It should be out there outlawing the civil rights act, the new deal legislation etc. Instead it is dealing with stupid things over which the federal government has explicit power.

]]>
By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-865 Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:29:55 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-865 In terms of principle, the best conclusion is probably: The Court is not the Law. The Law is higher than the Court; the Court can be wrong, and the Court can be corrupt, as I believe it has been many times in the last 20 years.

The Law as determined by precendents may be the law which is enforced, but it is not the Law. Loss of faith in the honesty of the Court is not the same as loss of faith in the Law. (Rather, it’s a cause for promoting impeachment proceedings…)

]]>
By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-864 Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:23:54 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-864 The depressed point of view states that the principle involved is simple: fascism. A.k.a. “There are no individual rights; the state has all rights.” This is unfortunately entirely consistent with the rulings of Rehnquist on most cases.

Paul Fernhout has made a very good point. Unfortunately, the attitude of the Reagan/Bush “justices” corresponds quite consistently with a belief that *private* property is sacrosanct but *public* property has no value. This is of course in contradiction to the ancient public trust doctrine, but it’s the line they have taken. Accordingly they probably see it as an issue of property, but see nothing wrong with giving away public property for zero public benefit.

Impeachment of Scalia, Rehnquist, and Thomas is what the country needs, of course; unfortunately it’s very unlikely to happen.

]]>
By: Paul Fernhout https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-863 Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:37:22 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-863 A positive spin on the decision:

By its ruling, the Supreme Court essentially and perhaps unwittingly advanced the notion that copyright is not a natural property right, and is not subject to compensation for taking, since otherwise, how could extending an existing copyright not be considered a taking from the public domain and thus entail direct and immediate compensation to the public? Thus, say, a law shortening existing and future copyright terms to say three years passed tomorrow can not be considered a taking from the private domain (which is otherwise, the obvious objection copyright holders would make to such a law). The hope of this decision is that someday it can essentially be cited in defense of legislation to shorten copyright rems for all works. (“The Supreme Court did not object to lengthening them in Eldred vs. Ashcroft on property rights grounds, so it cannot object to shortening them…”) So, the loss of this case could be viewed in the end as a clever ploy by Prof. Lessig to undermine the notion of copyright as property, and thus lay the ground work for a transformation of U.S. society in the internet age. 🙂

]]>
By: Thomas https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-862 Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:49:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-862 Larry, what I’m talking about is this post, which has stuck with me for a long time, and which connects with the piece I responded to:

“The Lopez-Eldred link: […]There is no principled way to distinguish them, except to say that between the two, it is the Copyright Clause that more clearly demands judicial enforcement of its limits. … Yet of all the parts of this that will be hardest to accept, it would be a decision that is inconsistent in just this way that would be worst. What possible reason of principle could there be for restricting Congress when it comes to federalism interests, but not when it comes to the public domain, except the ugly reasons? For someone who must teach constitutional law every year, this is the part I fear most.”

What is one supposed to think this means? “[E]xcept for ugly reasons.” Are we supposed to think that that is directed at all 9?

]]>
By: John J. Coupal https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-861 Sat, 18 Jan 2003 04:57:53 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-861 If you can’t answer my question about the spelling of “Constitution”, you undoubtedly don’t understand the meaning of the Eldred decision.

I understand.

]]>
By: Lessig https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-860 Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:19:49 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-860 A person named “Thomas” writes: “You?ve been questing the integrity of the 5 since October.” Not true. This is the first post that has suggested anything at all about “the five.” The other references to 5 was just the 5 votes necessary to make up a majority — whether from the 5 Lopez supporters, or not.

]]>
By: Ben https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-859 Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:29:30 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-859 Hi. Haven’t communicated for a while, but I thought I’d respond to your elegy for Eldred. I don’t understand why the actual mechanics of decision-making in any particular case ought to undermine your teaching of how we should try to understand what the Court does. In our 1998 seminar on constitutional fidelity, you coyly insisted that your theories about the behaviours of the Court were merely descriptive. I recognize in retrospect that the act of teaching itself made these theories normative. In struggling to read the Court’s decisions over time in a fidelitist manner, we internalized a conception not merely of the Court, but rather of law. (Your work in the academy, on this view, is symmetrical with that of Robert Hale, but pushing in the opposite direction.) It would take many decisions–maybe more than the Court could issue–to make me abandon that conception of what law is. Besides, Eldred may yet be interpretable once we’ve gained greater perspective on it. So keep the faith.

]]>
By: Roy Murphy https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2115#comment-858 Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:21:46 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/01/the_silent_five.html#comment-858 Onward to Golan v. Ashcroft!

]]>