Comments on: on colleges and blog-like things https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305 2002-2015 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:04:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Michelle Keil https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3291 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:04:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3291 What an interesting story guys. Why did you stop blogging?

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By: Jack Dake https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3290 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:53:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3290 I’ve been searching for this news and find it occasionally.

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By: Louise Skillings https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3289 Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:03:00 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3289 If you want to improve your blogging skills I recommend you to read this article https://persuasivepapers.com/sample-of-persuasive-school-essay/. You can be the best of the best!

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By: G. Fuller https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3288 Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:20:30 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3288 While the administration of Grinnell College, and administrations like it, may not see the “value” of “virtual communities,” the students, faculty, and recent alumni of the college see the value and utility in it…

…considering that to fight this decision they have set up an online petition, an e-mail exploder, several Web sites, a Wiki, a hand-coded comments system, a phpBB, an IRC channel, several instant-messaging chats, and had information posted to several blogs including high profile ones like Mr. Lessig’s.

Of course, they also got plans up and running on a non-college server within two weeks, paid for out of pocket.

I hope everyone (including administrators and bureaucrats) will soon see the value and utility of online communities like they do.

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By: Jenny https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3287 Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:53:24 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3287 “The decision was made over summer break, when the Student Government Association could do nothing about it; not even protest.”

Ahh..but isn’t that how its usually done?

My Alma Mater consistently promised, in response to student concerns, that budget cuts would not affect the number and variety of “chaplains” (They represented a variety of religions – I don’t remember the correct term). Students even held protests/vigils prior to the budget being decided upon, they were that concerned about this issue.

So…we get back from spring break and guess what was cut from the next years budget. Most of the chaplain’s salaries.

And then there’s the U of Oregon, which finally gave in to not only student pressure, but also the results of a student election and the findings of a University created committee, and agreed to join the Worker’s Rights Coaltion. This was decided late spring.

So…during the summer, when most of the students are gone… the University reverses its decision in response to pressure from Nike and its CEO Bill Knight.

I understand that hard decisions have to be made and you can never make everyone happy, but college administrators should realize that going back on promises and/or making decisions in ways that attempt to deny students any type of voice only creates mistrust and resentment.

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By: Elmer Masters https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3286 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:04:39 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3286 As to whether or not this is common at colleges and universities, I’d probably say not, but that may change as more institutions actually take a look at what is going on on their networks. It is certainly in the best interest of the institution to make sure that any sort of online community carrying the school’s name operates in accordance with the policies of the school. Personally, I think PLANS should have been given a chance to operate under the guidlines, rather than just be shutdown.

I was the head of IT at Cornell Law when Russell Osgood was winding down as Dean (1996-1998), and I reported directly to him for some time. From my experience, I can say that at Cornell his interest in IT was primarily to keep email running and making sure faculty could print as needed. He did not see the value of things like ‘virtual communities’ then. He was a good and fair administrator who was a masterful politician with a well-regarded open door policy that made him popular with staff, faculty, and students. I’m sure that the changes to the IT policies were not made lightly or capriciously, but were timed to occur at a point of least resistance.

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By: adamsj https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3285 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:39:44 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3285 Putting this into a different context, how does this compare with the all-too-common experience of a university administration taking a student-run radio station and forcibly turning it into a university-run NPR outlet? The first thing that comes to mind is that, unlike a radio station, which requires a large capital investment and a license, these folks were able to say, “Sorry–everyone move to the other side of the street and resume what you were doing,” rather than–well, squashed student stations seldom get to comment on their destruction, so–rather than being silenced.

Most of the other stuff–dirty deeds done over the summer, universities violating their own procedures, deceptive information given to the student government, obsession with limiting student contacts with non-unversity people–is simply how I’ve seen university administrations operate…

…that is, how they operate when they face opposition. Usually, there isn’t any opposition. Most universities are now more vo-tech schools than anything else, and most students are there to get job certifications, not educations. Why complain about free culture in the hiring hall?

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By: James Day https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3284 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 01:11:15 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3284 I have an advantage, since I’ve been an online community moderator for around 8 years in a group of communities which have been doing it for several decades and I do carefully track the law in this area, though I’m not a lawyer. The CDA, DMCA and precedents have made it really clear that it’s the actual entity who causes the publication with a direct act which is responsible, not any entity which is just a common carrier, as the college is in most respects.

The college probably does have some potential liability when it comes to student educational and employee records and those do need to be handled in a suitably structured way. I don’t track this area of law, but I know it’s a delicate issue with lots of legal considerations.

For official use, the college can keep its own system, business use only. It’ll be a pretty sterile system but still very useful. All of the fun and much of the informal discussion belongs in another place.

There’s a sort of rule of online communities: the faster something happens, the greater the reaction, a bit like stopping a car with a concrete wall rather than braking over 50 yards. Bad idea to use the concrete.:) If the people who shut it down that way were professional moderators, I’d call them incompetent.. but they clearly weren’t. They just didn’t know what any skilled moderator could have told them.

I don’t think that the college understands the true value of online communities and the potential good they can do for it. No community based on the current rules can fully achieve that potental. Certainly not one intended for student use. There’s tremendous potential for increasing the involvement of alumni (along with getting the benefit of their experience, career networking and financial contributions) and facilitating the introduction of future students but it seems most unlikely that this potential will be realised.

My advice: don’t have the system managed by any current student or employee, who might be reachable through college administrative rules. That also insulates the college from liability and lets students speak fairly freely about the college.

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By: C. https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3283 Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:17:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3283 Funny you should say that our administration needs competent legal advice — the current president of our college came to us from Cornell Law. As I understand it (as much as I can as a Grinnell student and user of Plans), the administration and Information Technology Services ordered the removal due to legal issues which were not defined in anything other than very vague terms and altered the school’s computing policy so that Plans appeared to be in violation of it. I wouldn’t go so far to say that the student body is uniformly unhappy, but there have been instances (tuition/financial aid, computing resources, among others) where I believe that the majority of us as students feel that we have been slighted by the administration’s desire to be more in line with our “peer institutions.” There’s a great education to be had here, but I wonder if it is being outweighed by the ham-handed actions of the administration.

The Plans mess infuriated users (whether students, alumni, or staff) for several reasons:
1) The decision was made over summer break, when the Student Government Association could do nothing about it; not even protest.
2) The ITS-proposed replacement had not been developed. Furthermore, the replacement blog initially excluded alumni, who make up a sizeable contingent of plans (it is also used as a way to present and store contact information for those interested.)
3) Plans was and is a student-run community, and shutting it down without consulting the student body appeared to be a violation of the college’s principle of self-governance.

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By: James Day https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2305#comment-3282 Sun, 10 Aug 2003 21:30:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/on_colleges_and_bloglike_thing.html#comment-3282 Does anyone know what terrible secret Grinnell College is trying to conceal? Are the students and staff of Grinnell College uniformly unhappy and the school afraid that prospective students and employees won’t want to be there if they are able to read frank discussion?

It appears that Grinnell College is greatly lacking in understanding of the way communities of communities moderate themselves and the value of speaking freely.

If this action is typical, it appears that Grinnell College is not a place to send any student if you want to give them a well-rounded education in a thoughtful and modern educational establishment.

Based on their assertion that they would be the publisher, they also appear to need competent legal advice, if only so they discover the wonders of the good portions of the DMCA and the laws and precedents in this area.

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