Comments on: On “Creative Communities” https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569 2002-2015 Mon, 17 May 2004 07:24:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Nathanael Nerode https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4417 Mon, 17 May 2004 07:24:45 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4417 “After all, as Buck points out, each sub-audience of creators (musicians, composers, screenwriters, directors, hackers, coders, photographers) tend to see these issues in their local contexts…”

Perhaps as someone who has written programs, stories, and non-fiction,
drawn and painted, taken photographs and video; and written and performed music — and made modifications of other people’s versions of most of the above — and desired to reprint generally unavailable-due-to-copyright instances of most of the above — I am more inclined to see the big picture?

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By: matt perkins https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4416 Sun, 09 May 2004 23:45:46 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4416 Well said, that an infringement “infringes” whether early or late in the term. The general consensus among those who agreed (with you) that SunTrust v. Houghton Mifflin was a “fiasco,” was that it was a troubling situation because the fair use case for TWDG was so strong.

Do you believe that TWDG is a “derivation that infringes the copyright?” If you do, then SunTrust v. Houghton Mifflin was hardly a “fiasco:” it was a legitimate copyright owner asserting his rights. If you don’t, then wouldn’t clarity on what is “fair use” and “transformative” be of help? Doesn’t shorter term lengths just confine these “fiascos” to a shorter window?

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By: Joe Buck https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4415 Sat, 08 May 2004 21:45:46 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4415 Thanks for taking my comment so seriously. At the risk of appearing to be a nitpicker, however, I must point out that in the computer industry the term “coder” is reserved for a junior programmer who is not trusted to engage in serious software design, but merely carries out the instructions of more senior software development architects. So it might not be the best term to use in explaining to writers, musicians, and the like that there is another community whose creative freedom is threatened by copyright maximalism.

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By: Ann Bartow https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4414 Sat, 08 May 2004 12:51:07 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4414 Hi Siva,
I agree with you that the appellate court reached the right conclusion for the wrong reasons in allowing publication of the Wind Done Gone, but I propose an alternate “right” reason – the Wind Done Gone is not “substantially similar” to Gone with the Wind. I discuss this in a paper called “Copyrights and Creative Copying” forthcoming in the Ottawa Law and Technology Journal, and available now at hhtp://www.ssrn.com. My thesis is that reigning in the definition of “improper appropriation” in the context of substantial similarity and unauthorized derivative works claims will allow for a lot more transformative creativity that does not provoke successful infringement litigation.

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By: Timothy Phillips https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4413 Sat, 08 May 2004 11:49:55 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4413 If I had my ‘druthers the term of copyright would be between 40 and 50 years. The limitations imposed by the Universal Copyright Convention probably mean that we are stuck with a minimum term of 50 years. But I’d consider it a good start if we could just knock it back from 95 to 75 years.

A derivative work that infringes a copyright infringes it as much on the last day of the monopoly’s existence as on the first. And of course the existence of these monopolies reduces the public’s freedom, including its freedom to criticize in certain ways, while the monopoly endures. During the copyright it is not “okay to criticize” a work by creating a derivation that infringes the copyright. Tough. If we’re serious about promoting progress by means of these monopolies, the monopolies need to be robust enough to be a credible incentive, and that means we forego for a time some of the rights we would otherwise enjoy over the work in question. The theory is that we give authors these monopolies, thereby reducing our freedom in the short term, in order to get “progress”, thereby enhancing our freedom in the long term. In practice, of course, Congress is expanding the scope and duration of copyright, reducing our freedom, and we have gotten almost nothing in return.

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By: matt perkins https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4412 Fri, 07 May 2004 18:08:10 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4412 Timothy — if you think the Wind Done Gone case was a fiasco, representing a problem to be cured by shorter terms but not by limiting the derivative right or by broadening fair use, does that mean that you would conclude that TWDG would have infringed if it were published, say, 10 years after GWTW? 20 years?

How much time needs to pass before it’s okay to criticize?

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By: James Day https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4411 Fri, 07 May 2004 16:54:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4411 The previous fair use decision for thumbnails seems like the most useful thing to come from Kelly v. Arriba Soft, for it did apparently reach a well considered conclusion in court.

It’s also interesting that on one of his sites Kelly appears to be trying to limit the scope of the default judgement to just the specific case at hand, placing the images directly in an image editing program, without accompanying that presentation with the context of the original placement. Given that, I’m even less inclined to draw any conclusions beyond “if you’re writing an image editing program that has web serarch links, be sure that when an image is loaded for closer examination by your end user, you also retrieve and make available the accompaning context so the rights can be considered if it turns out that the end user likes the image”. Briefly: don’t discard copyright information.

Placing things in that sort of context appears not to be an unreasonable requirement, so I’m reluctant to draw any dire conclusions, particularly given the generally unsatisfactory nature of default judgements as the basis for a good conclusion.

Very broad transformative use, far beyond what’s prudent in the US today, doesn’t bother me at all. I trust that to the extent the original work’s market might be affected, the original creating party has the experts in the work and can do a better job of exploiting and marketing it.

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By: Seth Finkelstein https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4410 Fri, 07 May 2004 14:47:07 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4410 “The Wind Done Gone” was not parody as much as commentary in a literary format. That format is being confused with function.

Of course, drawing the line between such commentary and fanfic, which is more derivative, could be challenging.

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By: Kentab https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2569#comment-4409 Fri, 07 May 2004 14:21:45 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/05/on_creative_communities.html#comment-4409 I am wondering how you distinguish between a transformative work, which you imply is (or should be?) exempt from copyright infringement and a derivative work? And on what do you base this?

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