Comments on: More on Alternative Compensation Systems https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817 2002-2015 Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:38:01 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Rock Music Man https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7870 Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:38:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7870 As an owner of a small indie record label and a musician I can personally relate stories of smal bands that have been destroyed by file sharing, CD copying, and the idea that music should be “free”.

This is made more difficult by an attitude that our intellectual property is not as valuable as “legitimate” arts like movies, books and etc.

We give away free music but not as a business decision but as an atristic one. We all make tremendous sacrifices for our art but the current climate is worse than ever for small labels despite the common knowledge belief to the contrary.

The truth of the music business is that there is not much money in it anymore. Especially when our rights to our product is being discounted in value.

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By: J.B. Nicholson-Owens https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7869 Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:40:40 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7869 Why should I trust that the big book, music, and movie corporations will hold up their end of the bargain and not use their organized millions of dollars to oppose the change to copyright law (the change that allows everyone to build and distribute copies of works we have collectively paid for through taxation)?

It seems to me that we are already losing the extant copyright bargain–where in order to bring the public more published works, the government grants a temporary monopoly on a published work in exchange for giving the public the freedom to do what they want with that work in perpetuity (the public domain). Reasonable proposals to underscore this exchange, like the Eldred Act, never become law.

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By: AJ https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7868 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:47:32 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7868 Artists should give away their music for free, and allow it to be freely distributed. They would make money by selling call options to fans, options that would allow a fan to purchase a concert ticket if the band happens to tour in the fan’s region. (The option could also be construed as a fan club membership.) All concert tickets would be auctioned off, thus allowing the band to recoup the revenue currently lost to scalpers. Option holders get first rights on a group of tickets. In allowing their music to be freely distributed the artist would build a fan base in a rapid manner. This system would, obviously, work for up-and-coming talent that hasn�t yet signed to a traditional label.

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By: josh https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7867 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:30:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7867 What’s to prevent me from producing “Republican Rock”, that isn’t really music, but that people play continually (with the volume turned down) in order to fund the Republican party?

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By: Joe Allen https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7866 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:03:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7866 One of the best aspects of the ACS is that it clearly allows for derivative works. So many other areas, as many have noted, are fraught with various problems and complexities that it is hard to imagine our government moving in this direction. I am wondering if it would be better to continue to challenge the current scope and practice of copyright law in hopes of regaining its original balance of private interest and public good.

For instance, Prof. Fisher suggests the ACS would offer a �a sensible mechanism� for dealing with samples in rap music. Many producers sample out-of-print orphaned works, for instance an obscure funk 45 from the early 1970s, so the ACS would not clarify copyright ownership.

The web site funk45s.com is building an archive of such rare recordings. For fear of copyright infringement, the owner of the site says, �The purpose of this site is to increase awareness of rare funk music, not to encourage music piracy or online trading of mp3s etc. To this end the audio is deliberately very low quality one minute samples which cannot be used for anything other than education.� Many of these recording were originally pressed in small qualities and, if available, are quite expensive in the collector marketplace. In practical terms, the music is inaccessible to the public unless a song could be found on one of the p2p networks. Although a few independent labels have legally reissued a few of these recordings, tracking down the original copyright owners is a daunting, time-consuming task, so most will never be legally re-issued any time soon. I am less concerned that the music industry has lost some of their current and future profits due to p2p downloading and more concerned about public access to recordings such as these � access for education, research, re-mixing, sampling, and other derivative works. (Ch. 6 of Promising to Keep concludes with a brief mention of the beginnings of a digital library of Brazilian music.)

For actually changing the direction of cultural ownership and access, sooner rather later, will challenges to copyright law, such as Kahle v. Ashcroft, be more effective then sorting through all intricacies and constituents of the ACS?

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By: Paul Robinson https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7865 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:57:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7865 The ACS is so brain-dead I ended up sitting down and writing out all the problems I had with it. It’s mostly a summation of what people have already put up here, but my write-up is here. It’s a lengthy piece, but quite frankly, as a liberal, Lessig’s government spying system combined with a market cap on the amount of money an artist can make, quite frankly, disgusts me. And yes, I mean Liberal in the UK/pure sense of the word, not the incredibly screwed up American sense that isn’t accurate.

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By: Stephen Cochran https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7864 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:29:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7864 A TIVO model? Ahh, I get it now – “Pay us a mandated fee, give up your right to privacy, and we will take care of the rest.”

Lovely.

ACS is nothing more than a new version of the NEA, whereby the goverment decides (through a legally defined system) what art to support. To tweak the system to favor one group over others, all it takes is a law proposed by bought-and-paid-for legislators, passed by indifferent legislators, and signed by a beholden president.

Sounds great, where do I sign up?

There is no system, other than direct payment of the artists/producers by the consumers, that will work well in the long term. The fact that we can’t do that efficiently _now_ doesn’t change the fact that any other system we put into place will be a bad hack at best. And once codified into law, getting rid of that bad hack will be another 60 year nightmare.

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By: Erik Trickel https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7863 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:04:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7863 Cory comments “Gaming the system is going to be extremely difficult to prevent for all of the same reasons that DRM is most likely doomed. When the data and the key are on the same hostile machine, somebody will find their way in and then widely distribute the solution. In the same way, code running on a hostile machine can be modified easily by a technologically savvy user, so almost immediately the �plug-ins� would be cracked to allow reporting of whatever data the user wanted.”

As with most every other security system you have to decide where the level of tolerance is. Everything can be hacked by people willing to pay enough money, nothing is 100%. I think ways can be devised to minimize this threat through server side processes. I think the parallel you draw is absolutely correct and quite possible if complete anonymity is allowed, however partial anonymity could yield a solution where consumers are still protected and the evaluation process is shielded.

Take for example the TIVO evaluation system. I have not heard of wide spread hacking to alter the results of their process (though that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened). I think this might be because in order to contribute you have to be a paying TIVO member and each account has only 1 vote in a manner of speaking. This provides a server side solution to the problem and can succeed where DRM fails because both keys don�t have to reside on the hostile machine. Plus it also puts the consumer in a position that they want to protect their information because dissemination to others could result in a loss of personal information (like their credit card number); this means the machine is less hostile than the DRM scenario. This type of symbiotic relationship would have to be achieved by the ACS, and I am not sure it can be done with complete and total anonymity.

The TIVO system is a potential model for how the ACS evaluation system could work. Create an environment where consumers wish to protect their IDs/certificates and only issue 1 ID/certificate per name/address/phone/DL# (or some similar combination of private identifying information). If you offer an incentive to the consumer and ensure not only top-notch protection of their information but complete anonymity of the actual usage tracking (use their ID/certificate only for authentication not vote tracking). Another feature that might need to be implemented is a 1 vote per item, account and for a specific period (though this does have the cost of some loss of anonymity). These ideas have the potential to severely limit the gaming effect especially in regards to automated gaming (which would be my biggest fear).

Thoughts or comments?

Cory comments “It doesn�t seem that this system addresses variation of value to the consumer. The Economist, for example, can charge a significantly higher yearly subscription fee than Entertainment Weekly, because its relative value to its (I suspect) smaller subscriber base is much higher. How does this system support niche items of high value to their niche?”

Great question Cory, I hope Professor Fisher has time to respond to it for many media companies it could be a show stopper. The only idea to offset this issue is implementing some type of weighting system, but it would most likely be an administrative train wreck. I fear unbalanced distribution is problematic in this type of an ACS, but I am sure there is an angle I am missing.

ErikT

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By: Roland https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7862 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:32:02 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7862 Isn’t only taxing broadband users kind of short sighted? Is there going to be separation between broadband and non broadband in 10 years?
And as more and more “free” audio and video (material in public domain, given away by the author, podcasting, whatever) content is put on the web, taxing “high volume” subscribers who are really downloading material that no-one has any financial interest in doesn’t seem fair either.

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By: Roland https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2817#comment-7861 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:30:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/10/more_on_alternative_compensati.html#comment-7861 Isn’t only taxing broadband users kind of short sighted? Is there going to be separation between broadband and non broadband in 10 years?
And as more and more “free” audio and video (material in public domain, given away by the author, podcasting, whatever) content is put on the web, taxing “high volume” subscribers who are really downloading material that no-one has any financial interest in doesn’t seem fair either.

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