Comments on: Kluger Krugman https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330 2002-2015 Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:18:36 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Lawrence Leske https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4030 Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:18:36 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4030 As a businessman I would view the FERC fines as a clear signal to continue these price manipulations. A 0.1% legal cost overhead regarding these actions is not only incredibly cheap, but very encouraging of more such actions. Caveat emptor!

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By: bramka sms, dzwonki, nokia https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4029 Wed, 25 Feb 2004 04:14:56 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4029 Well of course these are the values of our time! This is corporate America, dammit, we must protect their profits, or else it will be victory for the terrorists and IP pirates! (But I repeat myself.) What the hell are you, unpatriotic?!

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By: green https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4028 Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:44:42 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4028 thanks for image・・・

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By: Jay Currie https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4027 Sun, 05 Oct 2003 04:30:31 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4027

Jesse Jordan (the RPI student who ran a search engine and was sued by the RIAA) was, the RIAA claims, liable for $15,000,000 in damages. When you add up the damages claimed against all four of these students (who again had built search engines), the RIAA was asking, on some estimates, for $100 billion dollars. That�s because, under our law as interpreted by the RIAA, downloading one song makes you liable for $150,000. Or, on the RIAA�s view of the law, cheaper to defraud Californian�s of $9 billion than download 10 songs from a p2p server.

I agree with your general point but the numbers seem wrong. The RIAA’s claim is between $750 – $150,000 per song. The lowend number would be the best they would likely do in a non-commercial case. So you would have to have around 1400 offending songs to hit the fine numbers.

Given that the RIAA seems to be settling their claims at around $3000.00 a pop (the term nuisance suit springs to mind) the music biz seems to be gaining some sense of balance.

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By: Greg Powell https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4026 Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:17:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4026 A million dollar fine does seem unconscionably paltry if the price manipulations were true (perhaps the difficulty arising from estimating damages made the FERC wary–no idea). Though a Cal resident I am woefully ignorant of the issues here. Though the FERC settled, my understanding is however that Cal’s claims are still alive. (Perhaps there are some private suits still alive as well.) So not all may be lost. At a minimum those long term contracts should be voided or re-negotiated.

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By: steve carter https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4025 Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:48:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4025 Yes, the big energy companies are “bad.” Yes, they probably should have been fined more. The people most responsible should be jailed, too.

But this is the bit that concerns me: �not including the extraordinarily high prices we now face because of long-term contracts signed at the height of the crisis.�

Why the passive voice? There was someone clearly responsible for signing these long-term deals � the Governor.

Let’s face the facts: Governor Davis sure made it pretty easy for �Big Energy� to screw California. Davis got in way over his head trying to wheel and deal in the energy market. These long-term energy deals that will cost Californians billions are deals for which he must be held accountable.

I don’t mind piling on the big energy companies and Corporate America when they deserve it, but let�s not let the elected the officials � even the ones for whom we have political sympathies � off the hook. �The extraordinarily high prices Californian�s now face because Governor Davis signed ill-advised long-term contracts at the height of the crisis� will likely cost more than the $9 billion Big Energy is on the hook for. Why don�t we sue Governor Davis? (or at least recall him).

Also, let�s watch our logic here, people. Yes, the $1 million fine seems small compared to the other fines cited, but the question is, was the fine just. The answer is �probably not� . But that�s not proved or disproved by the other fines.

I don�t know exactly how much of that $9 billion should be blamed on Davis�s ineptitude or nefarious energy traders. The facts of the case have not really been considered in any of these postings.

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By: Shuman https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4024 Mon, 15 Sep 2003 01:06:34 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4024 The problems in the industry are well-known, but few are proposing viable solutions based on consumer feedback. The Open Music Model is such a system, based on research conducted at MIT:

http://shumans.com/musicvote/

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By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4023 Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:24:06 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4023 Professor,
Can you or your cohorts file a class action suit for the $9 Billion on behave of California consumers? If not, why not?

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By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4022 Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:35:30 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4022 Don’t forget about those of us in the other Western states who’ve also seen our electrical rates skyrocket because of the California debacle and its impact on the electricity market. Here in Washington state, my electrical bills are basically twice what they were three years ago.

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By: Dennis https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2330#comment-4021 Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:37:20 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/09/kluger_krugman.html#comment-4021 What about this law:

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

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