Comments on: reason at Warner https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306 2002-2015 Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:22:09 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Timothy Phillips https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3298 Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:22:09 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3298 In re free culture, more here:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/entertainment/columnists/sfl-shsp1aug01,1,5007636.column?coll=sfla-entertainment-col

Lizzy wrote:
“you cannot simultaneously defend the legal or moral rights of copyright holders and vilify them for wanting some control over how their work is presented to the world.”

Sure I can. In the late 1930s journalist Alan Cranston (later Senator from California) believed that the official English translations of Hitler’s Mein Kampf were misleading and did not accurately reflect how extreme were Hitler’s views. Cranston and some associates created their own inexpensive, and illegal, abridged edition. Hitler’s official publisher sued for copyright infringement and won. The court ordered the destruction of thousands of unsold copies.

In hindsight we probably can find fault with the way Hitler’s U.S. publisher exercised control over “how [the] work [was] presented to the world.”

An author’s good-faith desire for accurate editions is not inherently blameworthy. An author’s use of copyright and contract law, where they can be used, to give effect to this desire is also not necessarily wrong in every case. But that doesn’t mean that an author’s use of these tools is never in any circumstances unwise, ham-fisted, or morally objectionable.

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By: lizzy m. https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3297 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:57:04 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3297 steve–

my point was that a case like this is emphatically *not* about money. often, the reason copyright holders object to reprinting is not monetary; it’s the integrity of the work.

having been respsonsible for copyright clearances and reprint permissions for many years, i can honestly say we never asked for a cease & desist until permission could be obtained because of money. it was always about misprints, misattributions and a lack of quality control in the reprint.

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By: dave https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3296 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:58:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3296 I think this maybe a positive sign. In the past, this would have resulted in a cease-and-desist and the lawyers would have taken over. Maybe Warner/Chappell Music have realised that grassroots publicity in this form actually helps promote the band and brings in the dollars?

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By: Steve Laniel https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3295 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:49:34 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3295 I disagree with Lizzy M. If the point of copyright law is to encourage artists to produce, then one of the few legitimate reasons to enforce a copyright is that you think the artist will suffer — that fewer people will buy his or her album, in this case. And there’s no reason to suppose that publishing lyrics will deprive the artist of any money at all if you publish his or her lyrics online. So I don’t believe there’s any incoherence in simultaneously supporting copyright and objecting to this particular enforcement.

There is, however, something terribly wrong with insisting that artists and publishers should get *complete* control over how their work is used. Free the work a little bit, and you’re likely to create a vibrant subcommunity of fansites like Green Plastic that *encourage* people to buy the work of artists. Complete control, at least in this case, seems to work *against* the needs of the artist.

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By: lizzy m. https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3294 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:21:33 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3294 Music publishers don’t want lyrics printer willy-nilly for the simple reason that they cannot correct or control frequent errors. Just as a painter doesn’t want his work reproduced with a green used where the image should be blue, a songwriter does not want “excuse me while i kiss this guy” used where it should be “excuse me while i kiss the sky”. in this case, the issue is quality control.

i think that we need to back off, often, in this battleground. copyright holders who monitor the use of their intellectual property are by nature ogres and are very often simply trying to protect the integrity of something they worked very hard to produce and are proud of.

you cannot simultaneously defend the legal or moral rights of copyright holders and vilify them for wanting some control over how their work is presented to the world.

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By: Shmoo of Electric Gypsy https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3293 Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:51:54 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3293 This is just another case of where things are wrong. If ANYBODY had the “right” to ask them to take the lyrics down, it SHOULD be the person who wrote the lyrics… but it was Warner/Chappell Music demanding the removal. Only when the record company realized that this tactic hurt their sales did they decide to licence the site to use the lyrics. Radiohead apparently had NOTHING to do with the decision on what to do with their creation. Intellectual property should NOT be transferable to anyone besides the writer/creator. Content creators should not be allowed to sell their rights to a second party. They should be entitled/forced to own their copyright outright until death do them part. Copyright laws are broken. Let’s FIX em America!

Support Local and Independent Music

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By: Ross Judson https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2306#comment-3292 Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:25:06 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/08/reason_at_warner.html#comment-3292 Yeah, it’s great that he got “permission”. Nice to know that there’s yet another thing we need permission to do. And hey — don’t we have to back the record companies on this one? Everybody knows that if you can just go to a site and READ THE LYRICS of a song FOR FREE, you’ll never buy the CD. There won’t be any surprise in the plot. In fact, I regularly check out the lyrics of songs before buying the CD. I might not like it.

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