Comments on: The Induce Act Revised https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2671 2002-2015 Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:16:40 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: paul https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2671#comment-5504 Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:16:40 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/the_induce_act_revised.html#comment-5504 what did you do to this PDF? I can’t copy and paste the text from it.

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By: M. Mortazavi https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2671#comment-5503 Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:02:52 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/the_induce_act_revised.html#comment-5503 Perhaps you can make something clear for me.

Was Andy Warhol violating copyright in his Micky Mouse (or other such) images, and are the art collectors who are engaged in commercial exchange of his work accomplices in this violation?

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By: Andrew Greenberg https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2671#comment-5502 Fri, 06 Aug 2004 17:42:53 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/the_induce_act_revised.html#comment-5502 I would eschew analogies to the law of criminal complicity. For one thing, note that while the standards for scienter there are broadly stated, the burden of proof for those standards must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Secondary liability is not rooted in criminal complicity, but rather from principles of respondeat superior — where the law and language developed in an environment of a preponderance standard. Similar ideas from different worlds, but it is dangerous to mix the words between the worlds.

I am fearful that even this lovely pull-back from modern standards will not be enough. Note further that the question of fuzzy and broadly stated standards has a deep and practical impact — in particular, they preclude summary judgment for either plaintiff or defendant. In the case of civil actions extending copyright infringement to technology, that uncertainty favors the content owners immensely. Potential damages are estimable by the number of extant works times $750, or billiions, and a jury can do anything. If there won’t be summary judgment for defendants in most cases, then the chill is present, even for defendants who are supposed to win: nobody will invest in or risk the technologies.

Finally, it is impossible. The language, as I read it, essentially pulls back vicarious infringement all the way back to its roots in respondeat superior. While I think this is a good thing, and criticized the expansion in my written testimony on the IICA, extending control-relationship-based liablity to a negligent-failure-to-exercise-capacity-to-control form, you must understand that such legislation is impossible. There are two classes of cases that no legislature will pull back from: (a) the Dance-hall cases, where the club, not the band is held liable, despite absence of an agency or employment relationship; and (b) the record chain cases, where the owner of the chain, is held liable for bootleg distribution by its contracting retail stores, notwithstanding the absence of agency.

We seriously considered pulling back on vicarious that far in the IEEE proposal (it was in until the penultimate draft!), but rejected it at end for the reason that a proposal that reverses the Dance Hall and Record Chain cases would be rejected out of hand as unserious.

Personally, I think it is dangerous to use any new words in redefining secondary liability. While I, personally, would get rich from the process of litigating these questions, I much prefer a more rationalized basis for knowing what the legislation actually means. At the end of the day, I ask whether a lawyer could write an unqualified opinion that his client will be safe from claims of secondary liability, given only the technical details of the product, so long as the client follows certain advices concerning marketing conduct.

This is why the IEEE substitute undertook, so far as possible, to use existing language from cases and statutes as a byword. While the law of patent inducement is far from crystal, it has proved far less uncertain than the status quo in vicarious and contributory liability, and would be far, far, clearer than the language in S.2560.

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By: Alexander Wehr https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2671#comment-5501 Fri, 06 Aug 2004 07:32:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/the_induce_act_revised.html#comment-5501 It is good to have dreams and all, but we as the public are currently fighting the FCC for the mere right to fairly use TV signals.

The last i heard on that case the judge allowed it to go forward, but urgency is sadly lacking, as there appears to be no news of anything on the docket in the case for months.

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By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2671#comment-5500 Fri, 06 Aug 2004 07:02:59 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/08/the_induce_act_revised.html#comment-5500 it’s good stuff.. is it hypothetical though, or is it actually getting to the hands of good congressfolk to be actually introduced?

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