Comments on: On teaching artists' rights https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426 2002-2015 Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:04:31 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Jessica https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22432 Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:04:31 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22432 I think this is a very serious issue, these students are only given one option without getting proper information of an alternative route for their creative works. I think this is where learning about Creative Commons should be implemented most!

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By: Adrian Lopez https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22431 Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:49:42 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22431 I had an angry confrontation with one of my Computer Science professors after he insisted that my final project would become the property of the school, and that any company wishing to use it would have to ask the University’s permission. I objected to the effect that, according to copyright law, any works I create independent of an employer belong to me as the author. He was so angry that for a minute there I though he would punch me. I ended up dropping out over the issue (first the class, and eventually the school).

A friend put me in contact with a lawyer, and the school eventually changed its policy to indicate that the copyright to student’s work belongs to the student. It was a small victory, in the end, but the incident rather killed my enthusiasm for the school. I did end up graduating, but only several years later.

At least some universities allow the students to declare their works public domain as an alternative to a copyright transfer.

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By: Karl https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22430 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 09:36:37 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22430 Professor,

Your support for the rule of law, and holding corporations to the fair bargain created under the traditional notion of American copyright, is noble. However, I’m not sure the hyperbole in this post helps your argument. I do believe the “Artists’ Right” can cut against your ideals as well.

As you know, in much of the world, the right of first sale and other values you have espoused as being integral to systems that “promote the progress…” are non existent due to an inherent moral authority put into the hands of the artist, even after their works are purchased by consumers. This “have your cake and eat it too” mindset appears to hover on the periphery of your logic here.

I do not agree with the acts of the school in this case, but as you say they are certainly within their rights under U.S. Copyright law. The students, if they agree, must be getting something in return for forgoing these rights, be it lower tuition or additional student aid. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that striking a delicate balance is the key, and I’m not sure throwing around terms like “sharecropper” and “the man” is the way to educated choices in this matter.

Respectfully,
Karl Davis

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By: RV https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22429 Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:15:17 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22429 I agree with Mark in his sharecropper comments.

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By: Vasya https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22428 Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:49:24 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22428 You know, several years ago back there in Kazakhstan (there is such a country) the examination system was totally ruined and replaced by a simple “fill in the gap” tests. The result is… hardly 20% of students are on lessons. Maybe, it’s not so bad at your place?

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By: edward https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22427 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:08:11 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22427 Fully agree with what you said, here is my addtional 2 cents:

Just finish the Frontier Visionary Interview with Alvin Toffler ( http://www.hwswworld.com/uploaddownload/interview/toffler.mp3 ), I was impressed by his sharp mind as well as his talking speed, that is probably why he could made those precise predictions, such as Prosume, a combination of outsourcing and DIY

Through the interview, the following viewpoints have been drawn:

1. There is no truth, only the correctness of truth to be proved. That is the fundamental limitation of human perception of reality

2. Minority power is good in certain way; it is ridiculous a high school drop out shall have the same voting as that of post-doctor. Elite ruling is good for a less developed world for sure

3. To fix the education system, the key is not the system itself; the key is people, especially those students. How to motivate them is a key challenge, since current generation and future generations need not study and work hard in order to make a decent living as we did before

4. The causes and effects of innovation to drive knowledge creation is yet a wild land or wonderland to be fully explored

5. There is a possibility for business miniature to happen, it will be not a shame any more for one-man shop, or one-shop man

6. Where will the modern civilization head on remains an open question

7. Human intelligence will be enhanced through technology advancement

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By: such sweet thunder https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22426 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:50:43 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22426 “So what lesson do film schools teach their students about copyright? Unfortunately, in some at least, the most striking lesson is on how best to become an artistic-sharecropper.”

I question whether your post is missing the broader structures at play. One of the mantras when I was in music school (which also had a similar copyright policy) was: “Don’t work for cheap, but do work for free.”

As an artist, it’s integral to both your career and personal development to give without expecting an immediate financial return. These situations include promotional activities and chances to collaborate with artists or work in situations that will enable you to develop your voice; which, at least to me, seems to be the case when you decide to attend an arts school. I suggest that this may be the lesson.

As written about above, the policy probably has much to do with lazy lawyering as it does with any lesson, but I don’t particularly see an ethical problem with the contract.

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By: NDK Creative Artist https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22425 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:40:06 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22425 The creation, fostering and perpetuation of ignorance in any subject, partial or entire, is an effort to gain a critical exploitative advantage over another individual or group.

In any society, where freedom of expression is upheld as a pillar of that society’s right to exist, such ignorance puts the lie to the very real chains that society is laying into the minds of its citizens. Chains of ignorance, invisible though they may be, are nonetheless shackles on liberty and freedom that chafe upon the lives and spirit of any being who wants to realize their dreams and live a life that can truly pursue liberty and happiness.

The traditional industry of art & entertainment and society itself has obfuscated intellectual property law to a degree that is injurious to society, civilization and the advance of culture, and this corrupt deceptive practice has gone on far too long. Alternatives are necessary to the honest and sincere advance of civilization. An honest and complete education is an important first step.

The art & entertainment industry is a rights-based industry; no rights, no industry, no freedom of expression, a civilization chained–invisibly, but chained nonetheless. Dr. Lessig’s observation is not just of a phenomena isolated to one particular school, it is a part of a global ignorance. The mythology that has grown up around intellectual property law is a part of the confusion, deceit and corruption that prevents imaginative and innovative people from improving their economic condition through ethical commercial exploitation of their original works. It is, in short, a way to keep the Wealthy, wealthy and the Poor, poor. The whole “starving struggling artist” mythology is a part of this deception. It and this fostering of intellectual property ignorance has got to go.

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By: Austin McGee https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22424 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:43:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22424 Christian T:

They say that the added hassle of having to deal with a company and the potential of getting screwed over by unscrupulous people is what the main deal with it is. They want the student to focus solely on the schoolwork. We take an average of 20 semester credits (with a max of 22) so they have a nice idea, but really I think it’s a very weak reason.

Really what it comes down to is the people in power in the administration don’t take advice from students because “we don’t know anything”. They’re fairly set in their ways and are extremely hard to change.

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By: will https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3426#comment-22423 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:15:54 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/08/on_teaching_artists_rights.html#comment-22423 The school I studied at in the UK had the same deal, though nothing was signed. They or the exam board (I forget which now) owned the copyright to any (design and tech.) coursework submitted.

I seem to remember a schoolgirl who was caught out by this several years ago when she and her parents tried to turn an idea from her coursework into a product and the exam board claimed ownership. I can’t dig out the links to support this unfortunatly!

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