Comments on: Self-Swiftboating https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561 2002-2015 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:54:12 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: robbep https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24926 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:54:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24926 What the Obama people dont seem to get is that Obama’s brand has been damaged by his shifting positions. Once he starts to look like your typical politician he loses his advantage as a candidate of change. His vote on FISA was more than a change of position, it revealed a lack of character and principles. I will still vote for him over McCain but I have lost all enthusiasm for his candidacy. Obama seems to be a person who does what is in his political interest irregardless of how it affects those around him. He had no regard for the millions of supporters who asked him to honor his word and fillibuster FISA, the only thing he saw was how his vote on FISA gave him a perceived advantage. The people around him who convinced him to change his position on this and other issues have done him a great disservice but he is primarily responsible for it. As much as I disagreed with Bush you have to admire him for sticking up for what he and his supporters believed in. Obama does not appear to be this kind of man. Which makes me me wonder if Obama is elected (which i doubt) will he be able to get anything done on issues like health care, education and health care. These issues will take some compromise but it will need a leader with a firm committment to make change. So far I have not seen it in him.

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By: Vectorpedia (Rick) https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24925 Sat, 12 Jul 2008 05:08:18 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24925 I think we will see selfswiftboating from both of the political parties…….its the sign of the times

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By: TMack https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24924 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 05:47:58 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24924 What do you mean by “swiftboating”?
John Kerry promised twice to release ALL military records to Tim Russert on MTP, and twice broke that promise. Actually it is obvious he was lying to begin with.
T. Boone Pickens offered a million dollars to anyone who could prove the swiftboaters lied.
If they did, why does T. Boone still have the million?
Kerry lied about being in Cambodia. He lied about throwing his medals over the fence at the Pentagon or the White House.
So Larry why do you use the term “swiftboating” when its meaning is based on lies?

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By: anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24923 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:31:57 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24923 “Obama is just another calculating, unprincipled politician.”

That is a fact!

Some of us who’ve had the tremendous misfortune of having Flip-Flop-Orama “representing” (loosest sense possible) us in the Senate tried warning all you gullible “believers” that you were drinking the kool-aid. Anyone who ever called Flip-Flop Orama’s senate office and was told they didn’t know how he was voting on bills that day such as Funding Iraq, Patriot Act, previous attempts at retroactive immunity, etc. because he had his finger sticking in the wind or planned to vote with the Rethuglicans know that he’s a smooth talking con-artist politico who’s been posing for the presidency since day one of his senate term.

Sooner or later it’s not fun saying “I told you so.” This sudden realization by the “believers” that they were sold snake oil by Flip-Flop-Orama is too little too late.

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By: Piper Davenport https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24922 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:26:35 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24922 I had applied to be a Barack Obama Fellow and was denied. Instead of choosing me, they conveniently chose another fat black woman in my place. One that had the “right” opinion. Now, it may have been a blessing in disguise that I wasn’t chosen. Also, the way things are going from a political standpoint, I wouldn’t want to be any politician that sells out the people who elect them to buy their own future. As Pluto continues its transit through Capricorn, I guarantee you that these same politicians that have sold out will eventually see the errors of their ways because the price will have been too high. I also would pay attention to the years 2016-2017, especially if we don’t pull out of the Iraq War soon. That year, Pluto transits the U.S. 2nd house of finances.

We live in scary times and I hope Barack Obama realizes the mess he’s about to inherit and doesn’t give up his core values because I’m afraid that he’s being built up to be used as a scapegoat.

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By: Chiaroscuro https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24921 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:50 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24921 Given Obama’s shameful vote this afternoon, it matters not what’s in Obama’s heart, head or gut regarding this FISA bill. I can believe that the candidate and his advisors have been “struggling” with this issue, but I don’t think it’s difficult at all. It’s a very bad bill. Obama knows this. His advisors know this. The only struggle they’ve had is with how to spin his cave-in.

Obama has, with his FISA vote, managed to deal a potentially mortal blow not only to his claim to be a different sort of politician but also to his other big claim for deserving high office — his judgment.

This vote calls into real question his judgment regarding the powers of the executive, the meaning of the Constitution, the consequences of one’s actions and his reading of the electorate. It calls into question his judgment on what’s politically possible for a real leader.

It also begs the question: Is there any issue, any principle, on which Obama is not prepared to compromise? If the Constitution isn’t enough — especially to a teacher of Constitutional law — to finally convince him to make a fighting stand, then what is?

Will Obama nominate Alito and Roberts clones because he’d rather not fight to get a progressive SCOTUS nominee through? Will his Iraq withdrawal timetable grind to a halt because he’s suddenly been persuaded that there are many “safety” reasons to linger near the oil wells or the Iranian border? After all, it should be relatively easier to play the bait and switch once he’s in the White House, especially since he’s already built a lot of wiggle room into his Iraq withdrawal statements.

It seems that at Obama’s core, the only bedrock value is the importance of not standing for anything if it makes waves. Except, of course, if you’re standing against your own supporters in a vain attempt to get a few votes from the swing voters. And that’s another fundamental misreading of political reality. The swing voters, because they have no core beliefs, swing to the stronger partisan every time, like loose electrons to the stronger nucleus.

I was never a fan of either Clinton or Obama, but right now I’d rather have Clinton as our nominee. Obama, like too many superstars, is starting to believe his own hype. These days it seems as if he’s posing for Mount Rushmore and arranging lotteries for a few of the little people to attend his coronation in Denver.

If he continues like this, he will lose in November.

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By: Raphael https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24920 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:58:24 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24920 I believe you are completely right about Obama’s new dilemma: he has undermined his raison d’etre by supporting a cornerstone of Bush’s policies.Obama has consistently spoken in abstractions and sounds like an alternative thinker with a progressive character, but in reality, he is a pragmatist who is very much interested in compromise and upholds many core values. Those on the Left who imagine he is going to be an anti-war candidate are sorely mistaken because he will increase our military presence in other areas other than Iraq, such as Afghanistan. He may even embrace Bush’s doctrine of preemptive attack by going after terrorists havens in Pakistan. I think many people seized on Obama because of his criticism of Bush and his anti-war remarks. What they failed to realize was that Obama can say he is AGAINST the war while still saying that we need to stay in Iraq for at least two more years. McCain cannot keep the troops in Iraq for 100 years because he will be dead well before then. Obama and McCain can keep troops in Iraq for four more years–and I think they will after the oil companies made the deal with the Iraqi gov’t. In any case, Obama’s problem is his rhetoric will never match up with his actions. He speaks as an idealist, but he acts as a pragmatist. That is what disgusts me about him because he duped a lot of people. But his critics share some of the blame for believing his promises and for not examining his character.

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By: Fingal https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24919 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:32:29 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24919 FF: You might be right.

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By: Dr Zen https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24918 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:02:40 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24918 Sorry, I can’t understand how voting for the new FISA Bill would actually be doing the “right thing”. Also, I don’t agree that his campaign is run by a bunch of decent guys who are just making mistakes while trying to be upright. They were pretty sharp in the campaign, not above smearing Clinton or beating up bullshit into outrage. Still, it’s too much to expect you fanatics to abandon your messiah just yet. After all, he’s only given up the Fourth, and he’s gungho for the Second.

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By: freemansfarm https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3561#comment-24917 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 05:38:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/selfswiftboating.html#comment-24917 Fingal:

“. . .who said that Obama was ‘not a politician?’ Sure he is, you don’t get elected if you don’t play the game. Nobody thought otherwise “

Duh, Lessig did.

Lessig:

“There are at least two views about what makes Obama so compelling. One that he happens to have the mix of positions on policy questions that best matches the public’s. The other that he is perceived by the public as “different,” and hence (given the public hates politicians so) someone the public can like, or more significantly, get enthusiastic about.

“I’m strongly in the second camp. It seems to me nothing more than consultant-think to imagine people choosing a President with a checklist of issues, finding the one to vote for the way they pick a place to vacation. It seems to me nothing less than obvious that people are passionate about Obama because he strikes them as a different kind of candidate — one that stands for his beliefs, that speaks clearly and directly, that can be trusted to stick by his beliefs, that says what he believes regardless. Such a creature, in most people’s minds, is’ “not a politician.’ Such a creature (i.e. “not a politician’) is what people want in a President.”

Get it now? “Not a politician.”

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