Comments on: REDUCE Spam Act https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165 2002-2015 Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:19:33 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1170 Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:19:33 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1170 I VOTE FOR A SPAM LAW.

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By: Martin https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1169 Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:22:30 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1169 This proposal only allows you do filter and dump the crap AFTER it has been through the mail server. Spam from foreign countries will be unenforceable.
It basically means that anyone can Spam legally as long as the ADV: is there.
Great….1 billion Spams an hour clogging up everyone’s mail servers, the internet backbones, just to be deleted by peoples personal mail filter.

What a joke !!!

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By: sama https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1168 Fri, 16 May 2003 18:22:15 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1168 I think that the spirit of the act is right. But there’s a practical hitch. Spammers are pretty good at hiding their tracks. But the spam itself almost invariably contains information designed to connect you to a “legitimate” business. In other words, if the spammer wants your money, he must provide a legitimate means by which you can contact him so you can give him your money. The bounty should cover this person too, not just the person sending the spam. After all, this is the person who paid to have the spam sent out, and this is the person ostensibly generating business out of the spam. And he’s much easier to track down. Fine him, stop him, and you’ll have stopped spam.

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By: Bruce Moldovan https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1167 Tue, 06 May 2003 14:24:55 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1167 As for spammers outside of the US, we can issue letters of marque and reprisal (despite treaties to the contrary).

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By: whirlycott https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1166 Tue, 06 May 2003 12:04:41 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1166 Some questions:

Subject line requirements: how is one supposed to know if an email address is “within the United States”?

I’m wondering if, under this law, it should be illegal to initiate from within the United States to anywhere or to initiate from within the United States to within the United States? How is it possible to know whether an address is owned by a person within the United States? Am I interpreting this too narrowly, but if I am a US citizen living abroad (or in the military serving abroad), does this law no longer apply?

Is it worthwhile modifying sec 4.a.1.B to add an “X-UCE-status: true” (or similar) requirement? I think this would serve a few purposes:

* It would serve as a template for other countries that don’t use English as a language (not sure if this is commonly done or not)

* it wasn’t clear to me whether in sec 4.a if the Subject: header was required or if this section applied only if it was included in the mail message.

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By: Brian W. Carver https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1165 Fri, 02 May 2003 20:37:04 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1165 I have three problems with the Bill, discussed in greater detail on my Blog. Basically, how do we collect from overseas spammers, since when is vigilante justice a good thing, and don’t go giving such good ideas to the RIAA. We’ll see this next as a means to stop file-sharers, and while millions of people hate spammers, millions of people ARE file-sharers. Uh-oh.

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By: Bruce Moldovan https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1164 Fri, 02 May 2003 20:19:23 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1164 I didn’t even get to page 2 of the proposed act before I saw the two things all new laws seem to require: A “to protect the children” clause/mission statement and an acronym-based name. I’m most certainly for the act getting passed, but I really do miss ye olde days when statutes didn’t have to expressly serve to “protect the children” and didn’t have to have idiotic names.

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By: Jay Solo https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1163 Fri, 02 May 2003 20:09:36 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1163 Hmmmm…

On spam, I get as few as 20 spam e-mails on a light day, and perhaps as many as 100. Much of it on account of being a domain holder of record. Kinda obvious when you setup an e-mail account domains@ your domain, and half the spam comes to that address. But I digress. It requires time and attention, even to delete them or block them, because I have to pay attention and not rid myself of wanted mail.

It’s a conundrum, how to do this so it doesn’t preclude e-mail you actually want. I suppose you could call that SBE; Solicited Bulk E-mail. Heh. If my sales rep from the computer parts place sends me something with ADV: in it, and I block all ADV: mail, then I’d better be able to make exceptions easily. And that means even then the existence of spam costs time and attention.

On the topic of fax spams, argh! Illegal or not, it still happens. I get at least a fax per day, that being the prime wear on the fax machine and use of paper. In effect, an entire toner cartridge was used for a few pages of legitimate faxes. A $31 cost, for a few pages, sucked dry by junk prematurely.

I posted the fax number on my web site and it was harvested far faster than spammers harvest e-mail addresses. The first fax came within 24 hours of the number being public. That fast, whoever gathers the numbers had scanned the site and started the process. That level of efficiency would be admirable if not for such a diabolical application.

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By: Zack Weinberg https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1162 Fri, 02 May 2003 17:13:09 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1162 I don’t understand why this is better than an extension of the existing federal junk-fax law to apply to electronic mail. That law makes all unsolicited commercial faxes illegal, labeled or not, and gives recipients a private right of action against the senders (which is similar to your bounty proposal, although the numbers are smaller). It has no loopholes. Under your plan, I expect that email spammers will simply stick ADV: in their subject lines and carry on. Sure, this is trivially filtered out, but (a) not everyone has the ability to filter, and (b) the recipient still has to pay for the bandwidth, CPU time, and disk space consumed by accepting and discarding the message.

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By: doogieh https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2165#comment-1161 Fri, 02 May 2003 15:59:26 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2003/05/reduce_spam_act.html#comment-1161 this will have two good effects, and one bad one.

first, there is the direct good effect of the threat of recovery for “stupid spammers” who can be caught based on headers.

then, there is the indirect effect that should reduce spam over time since everyone will autodelete any e-mail with “ADV” or “UCE” and hence reduce its effectiveness.

but there is a real chilling effect on otherwise protected commercial speech. if i’m not a spammer but, say, a salesman for a specialized industry such as chip manufacturing, and I get a new lead as to a potential buyer, is my unsolicited e-mail to the lead (not spam in the traditional sense as it is a legitimate and long-standing business practice in many industries) now illegal if I don’t put in the UCE or ADV tag?

The biggest open question is mixed e-mails. What if the e-mail has both commercial AND non-commercial content, say an advocacy piece sponsored by Greenpiece with a link at the bottom requesting you contribute to the charity? An excerpt from a New York Times with a link to subscribe to the New York Times? Where do you draw the line?

Its a good idea, but there are quite a few hypotheticals like these hiding at the margins, as is always the case when you try to regulate speech.

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