Comments on: Sunlight: Help on a distributed research project https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478 2002-2015 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:19:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: ESTEBE VERDE https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22994 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:19:18 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22994 Seth… Congratulations!

You have won the 2007 Big Dick of the year award and are well on your way to repeating your win in 2008!

Seriously though, you are kinda sharp and a bit funny.

But, as with most things it is most savored in moderation…

All the Best to you my friend.

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By: Steve Baba https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22993 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:14:38 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22993 Self Correction: The book I previously mentioned was not titled “10 Myths of Innovation” although it was organized in ten chapters each with a “myth of innovation” but is actually titled “The Myths of Innovation” by Scott Berkum.

On of the myths was that innovation is always good such as:

Better Living through Chemistry in the 60s
Eugenics in the 30 (The Immortalists is also a good book)
Air Planes would end war…(The Wright brothers had a theory that air observation would make surprise attacks impossible and that Brazilian airplane “inventor” even committed suicide after seeing his countrymen use airplanes to kill each other)
Railroads would end war…
The Internet would …

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By: Steve Baba https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22992 Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:41:22 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22992 “yet the overall effect is overwhelmingly to feed ammunition to right-wing government-haters”

I think a larger effect would be to feed ammunition to left-wing business haters, such as Ralph Nader (speaking of unintended consequences Nader->Bush), but good point about right wing extremeists such as Ron Paul using the information – not to mention anyone just looking for “dirt.”

Sen Clinton worked for Wal-Mart.
Mayor Giuliani worked for …..

“make former politicians more honest I hope.”

likely just poor wording, but who cares about what FORMER politicians do, since they are out of office. The problem is what ACTING politicians do. But this does illuistrate a time-consistency problem of sunlight, since much of the sunlight is on former politicians when it’s too late.

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By: Melanie https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22991 Sun, 23 Dec 2007 06:01:31 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22991 The Sunlight Foundation will make former politicians more honest I hope.

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By: Seth Finkelstein https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22990 Sun, 23 Dec 2007 05:54:11 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22990 @James – the problem is that you end up merely providing a factoid-mill for the Mighty Noise Machine. Why be unpaid researchers for them? Worse, it becomes another bait-and-switch, where people are tricked that they’re helping to make better government, yet the overall effect is overwhelmingly to feed ammunition to right-wing government-haters. That doesn’t make civic society any better. I’m quite serious, I’ve heard that you are sincere. But there’s a deep issue that the whole theory behind it is very mistaken. If you close your eyes and pretend this stuff turns into anything other than political football, you’ll just get kicked around.

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By: Steve Baba https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22989 Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:02:50 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22989 Also people here in Washington generally grasp all sides of an issue and are not so easily swayed by a game of golf. I suppose even people who work at the Sunlight Foundation play golf – and are likely have better Christmas parties than conservative groups. But the Sunlight Foundation and similar foundations have little money – not even enough to hire a Ph.D. economist like me much less a member of congress. Just ask Obama how much he made working for a public interest group.

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By: Steve Baba https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22988 Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:52:27 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22988 Quickly, it’s an issue because without the one-year time limit, people would be writing legislation one day, then working for the industry the next day – or writing the legislation while they have an agreement to work for the industry next year.

It’s similar to having your lawyer write your divorce agreement today while he is planning to work for your ex-husband tomorrow.

And if your ex-husband is going pay excessively, it might be a bribe, not an honest-day’s-work with a conflict-of-interest.

There are obvious tradeoffs between freedom-to-work and avoiding conflicts of interest. This is a complex issue, not a simple identification. For example, your lawyer later working for your ex-husband may or may not be a conflict of interest or outright taking a bribe depending on the time frame, any expectation of working for him in the future while he was working for you and so on.

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By: Ruthie https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22987 Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:04:32 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22987 I’ve always wondered what the issue is with former politicians and their staffers becoming lobbyists–particularly after a year has passed.

Just what do we expect them to do with their lives? They’ve just spent years obtaining political expertise. So now society would like them to transfer to an industry that they’re unskilled in and start their careers over from the bottom?

If there’s a problem, its not with the lobbyists. The problem is with the current Congresscritters. If they’re so prone to influence by their former colleagues then they’re going to be influenced by their golf buddies or their families. Power in every field relies on connections. While I don’t deny that connections can get one in the door, it typically cannot cause the person in power make an irresponsible decision. If Congresscritters are only getting information from lobbyists and not getting all sides of the story before they vote on legislation that’s their fault — they are the unprofessional ones.

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By: Steve Baba https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22986 Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:14:15 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22986 Aside from not using the media, much less any idiot who goes online, for any serious research, “there is always bias,” is not an excuse for using a highly problematic method – let’s just ask everyone who takes vitamins if they feel better – instead of a better method – let’s do a double blind study.

I would suggest that there are better ways to show potential dangers of the revolving door being used to improperly influence legislation than second or third-rate research – which might even be counterproductive from a publicity angle as a “publicity stunt” in addition to useless research.

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By: James https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3478#comment-22985 Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:55:38 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2007/12/sunlight_help_on_a_distributed.html#comment-22985 @Seth – of course it’s obvious, but I think the value is finding interesting ties between lobbyists and their former colleagues. A previous Sunlight project, earmarkwatch.org helped to bring these things (already public record) to light and journalists picked up a few particularly troubling earmarks. Just like earmarks, there is arguably nothing wrong with working as a lobbyist. It’s the idea of showing people what’s out there so they can investigate if there is something more sinister going on.

@Steve – Bringing people’s attention to the data is the real purpose, the site actually appears to link to other sites with most of this research already done, so one would assume the goal is to get people digging into it themselves. As far as there being the possibility for slant.. that’s true of the media, new media or old. The key here is that the data being collected is pretty much neutral ‘did they lobby’ not ‘did they bribe’ It appears to be a good way to educate people on the so called “revolving door” and see if anything pernicious pops up.

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