Comments on: AutoWeek: Oh come on https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234 2002-2015 Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:22:13 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14564 Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:22:13 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14564 Why just ask for $250? I think we should press for criminal charges for copyright infringement. Once some business owners start getting fined $100 000 and spending one year in prison, maybe the law will change.

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By: Arnie https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14563 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:55:25 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14563 Great article and great comments!! But (everyone has one of those)…

My internal alarm bell went off when Allen mentioned “an intern” found the photo and had not been “schooled” in proper journalistic due diligence. That’s great, but what does that say about the intern and their previous education? If they are of college age, what does that say about their college education? This is both a professional and ethical problem – and not to lump many of the “sub-25” set into this mix, but they have a different view from those of us that are “slightly” older.

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By: Vidiot https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14562 Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:24:32 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14562 tde, could you explain exactly at what resolution and level of artistic skill makes a photo worthy of being subject to ownership?

I don’t think it’s crappy — it shows its subject well, in a documentary style. (AutoWeek‘s crop, on the other hand, is lame.) But even crappy artworks and forms of expression are covered by copyright. If you’re a Kurosawa fan, for instance, does that mean that M. Night Shyamalan’s works are OK to pirate? Because they don’t meet your subjective threshhold of artistic merit?

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By: tde https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14561 Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:42:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14561 The picture is sort of crappy to begin with.

It looks like something anybody with a 3 megapixel digital could take.

Why such a mundane image is subject to “ownership” in the first place is sort of odd.

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By: yorkie https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14560 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:41:16 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14560 This is great to see. It’s also heartening to know that thanks to our developing and growing internet communities, us little guys aren’t so little any more and can’t be so easily ignored when individually we get stomped on.

And kudos to Allen for pursusing this so effectively and reasonably!

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By: Allen https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14559 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:18:59 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14559 Hello again,

I’m pleased to say that this issue has been settled and I’d like to thank Ken Ross at AutoWeek, for his cooperation. I’d also like everyone to know that it was not he who used my photo, but an intern who has now been schooled on the correct way to obtain images for the magazine.

Thanks to all for your remarks, and a very special thanks to Professor Lessig for your help!

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By: Ryan https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14558 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:32:44 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14558 With regard to James’ comments on Allen “stealing” the image for commercial purposes, it should be noted that there is a significant difference between commercial use and editorial use of a photo. This is an example of the latter, which is perfectly acceptable. Had it been the former (say, if it were used in an advertising brocure for something) then the owner of the “76” trademark would have to provide a release prior to printing.

There is no question that Allen should have been compensated for the use of his image & AutoWeek only offering $50 after getting busted is insulting. Unfortunately, although it is his copyrighted work, he’s unable to go after them in court (all costs aside) unless his image is registered at the copyright office. Allen is in a hard place; he’ll probably just have to take the $50. I’d like to hear LL weigh in on that specifically, since IANAL. It’s my understanding that the copyright office allows you to submit many images at one time by submitting a CD/DVD and a contact sheet (and only pay a $45 fee). Also, I’d recommend Allen take a look at some of the articles on the ASMP’s legal resources page: http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal.php

It’s also a good idea to include a copywrite watermark with your name and date on it in the photo. Although this can be cropped out, it often is not when people misuse images (more often on the web rather than in print). At least in this case your name is out there which could lead to some potential clients, even though you’ve gotten ripped off.

As far as Allen suggesting that he’d be happy with just a photo credit: while that’s certainly his perogative, working for free just makes it seem “more okay” to steal other photographs. He should be proud of and get paid for his work.

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By: James Day https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14557 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:18:28 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14557 Allen, I’m glad to hear that a photo credit would have been sufficient. I suspect that your speculation about motive is correct.

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By: Peter https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14556 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:06:59 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14556 Dear Mr. Ross

As a fellow journalist and a person who makes a living writing and taking pictures for commercial publications, I was astonished to read what you had to say to a fellow photographer who claims your publication published his work without authorisation. In times when copyright and it’s violation by normal consumers through “piracy” are a major subject of the entertainment and the publishing industry, I think we, the journalists, should take a clear stand for the protection of our work. If there’s reason for Big business to go after students and grandparents who alledgedly violated copyrights by stealing content through the internet, there certainly is reason for the holder of individual coyprights to ask for payment when their work is commercially exploited by publishers without permission and credit.

I am a guest of this country and not completely savvy with it’s legal system, but as a journalist, I made sure I have a basic understanding of intellectual property and the way it works in the US. I am, therefore, shocked to read your answer to Allen Sandquist after he – in a very polite manner, by the way – asked for payment for a picture your magazine obviously printed without permission, without crediting the author and without paying him.

It shocks me, because it shows you are either lacking the basic knowledge of how copyright works (as an art director? I doubt it) or you are trying to bully a freelancing journalist after you have ben caught in what appears to be the act of copright infringement, also known as piracy, also known as stealing.

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By: Allen https://archives.lessig.org/?p=3234#comment-14555 Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:47:43 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2006/09/autoweek_on_come_on.html#comment-14555 I’m Allen, the guy who shot the above photograph. Thank you all for your input on this issue.

I’d like to address some of the comments made by John Day. No, I did not contact ConocoPhillips for their permission to photograph their sign. As long as I am on public property, I don’t need their permission. I used to photograph businesses for a living and know that as long as the property being photographed is in public view, it can be photographed, with exceptions (e.g. nuclear facilities, government buildings, some military installations, etc.).

I shot the Unocal 76 sign for personal use on my website and consider it historically significant, as they’re being replaced by a new, flat red/blue logoed sign. Many people have photographed service stations, fast food establishments, etc., through the years. Heck, go to Flickr and type in McDonald’s and you’ll find 9,881 images. I’ll bet you that not one of those people asked for permission.

AutoWeek could have easily asked for my permission to use the picture and I would have been more than happy to let them, as long as it was credited to me.

Maybe Mr. Ross decided they’d save a few bucks if they just copied pictures from the web, rather than paying a photographer for their work.

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