Comments on: The Question https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659 2002-2015 Thu, 05 Aug 2004 02:33:01 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: lib joe https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5358 Thu, 05 Aug 2004 02:33:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5358 wow, i didn’t like seeing that cached BS from the Kerry campaign. But I do feel that Kerry will be better than Bush because the democratic party is the party of the people, and the people (like me) will be on his ass like zorro when it comes to these issues. The Bush administration’s base is made up of Jesus freaks. The question for you with regard to IP issues is this: which candidate’s BASE do you trust to come down on the right side of the issues?

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By: tatere https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5357 Tue, 03 Aug 2004 07:52:51 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5357 No, not non-partisan – bipartisan. The way corporate money does it – they are definitely involved in politics, they just play both sides of the street. We need a PAC that can make contributions and get access. Maybe a couple of partisan groups would be better, I don’t know – I don’t have any expertise here, I’m just typing. But we need political power as well as good ideas, and far as I can tell, you get that by delivering money and/or votes. Preferably money.

Look at the co-sponsors. Frist, Hatch, OK, you could argue this fits them ideologically (I don’t think that’s necessarily so but it’s possible). But Daschle? Ah – TV/Movies/Music is his 3rd biggest contributing industry, $385,760. Leahy? Hollywood’s his #2 industry, $221,950. Barbara Boxer (who REALLY should know better) – #4, $520,910. (Data from Open Secrets) And the list is growing. Ernest Miller’s post echoes Andrew Leyden’s here – “Apparently, the copyright industries are doing an excellent bipartisan lobbying job. I’ve yet to hear of a single senator who opposes or even has serious questions about the bill.” Words AND cash.

I still think there must be some group like this (like an EMILY’s List for copyfight, public domain, etc), even if it’s small. But if there really isn’t one, there needs to be.

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By: Kevin Riggle https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5356 Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:12:13 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5356 Eh, how about the Electronic Frontier Foundation for a non-partisan counterweight organization?

Heck, even given Prof. Lessig’s political leanings, Creative Commons is a non-partisan organization.

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By: tatere https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5355 Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:18:21 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5355 Exactly. We need a counterweight organization, that raises money, hands it out, rates Congress, goes after the most egregious offenders, lobbies, goes to hearings – the whole kaboodle. One that is not Democrat or Republican, as such, but for sure is not above the fray.

Does such a thing exist? I sure can’t find it. Seems odd – it’s not like we don’t have SOME moneybags on our side. There are some high-tech organizations, but honestly, I am not concerned about whether they can write off stock options as expenses.

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By: Andrew Leyden https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5354 Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:12:18 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5354 The biggest problem of copyright overhaul supporters is that they seek to make this a partisian issue. The MPAA and RIAA are not Republican or Democratic groups–they are incumbent support mechanisms that work Washington with a skill that copyright reformers simply cannot match. Not only is there money, but also “celebs” being available for photo ops, etc. They also never get off message, as is the case with many copyright reformers (EFF, Lessig, etc). Jack Valenti isn’t out there for one candidate or another, nor is he speaking about the evils of the war in Iraq or the death of the Kyoto treaty or abortion or whatever. He’s on message on his view of copyright.

And he is winning.

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By: Tim Wu https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5353 Sun, 01 Aug 2004 18:35:01 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5353 The full quote is here:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/technology/

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By: Gary Lerhaupt https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5352 Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:58:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5352 By the way, here’s a picture of using P2P to download the Induce Act hearings:

http://www.torrentocracy.com/images/screenshot-04.jpg

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By: Cranky Observer https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5351 Sun, 01 Aug 2004 15:59:40 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5351 > Cranky: I disagree about the American public having �no choice
> but to support Kerry in this cycle if the country is to survive�
> because it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, a circular argument.

Unfortunately, I am speaking literally here. Personally I think Ralph Nader is a fraud, but be that as it may he is NOT going to be elected President in 2004. Kucinich, who had some interesting things to say, was not nominated, nor was Dean.

But IMHO four more years of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld could lead to the literal destruction of the USofA. A protest or “change the sytstem” vote in 2004 will be suicide – certainly figurative, possibly literal.

I don’t know how much better Kerry will be, but he CANNOT be worse for the overall health of the country than Bush.

That’s my analysis, anyway. Given that, my point is: what will the Freedom movements do and how WILL they work to influence a Kerry Administration? Not how will they work to influence a Dean/Kucinich Administration in 2012, but what will they (we) do this reality’s January 2005?

Cranky

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By: Henry https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5350 Sun, 01 Aug 2004 05:00:03 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5350 I hit post instead of preview by mistake. Please delete the incomplete version posted a moment ago. Sorry!

The only comment on copyright law I�ve seen from Kerry has been this Hollywood Reporter article. It certainly doesn�t deal with INDUCE directly, but it gives me little hope that Kerry will be even remotely vigilant towards a balanced copyright.

Although one would expect Kerry to take a harder stance on unauthorized uses of copyright material an interview with an industry association magazine, his comments still don�t bode well for anyone who wants balanced instead of simply maximal copyright. He is somewhat equivocal in that he acknowledges legitimcay of �the normal college-dorm, room-to-room, person-to-person, friend-to-friend kind of sharing,� he later says that �you�ve got different parties that are resisting doing things that could conceivably make it difficult for people to share or destroy or limit by virtue of technology the capacity for a CD to be recopied any number of times and so forth. There are economic interests out there that lobby against a reasonable compromise to protect the property.�

I�ve read your books, Mr. Lessig, so I know you are willing to assert that copyright is a property right, albiet a very special one. I however think any sort of property right and phrasing can never be really free from the connotations of physical property. There is a full vocabulary that people automatically use and think in when they talk about property–theft, (exclusive) owndership, and so on–that is inimical to balance in copyright.

That Kerry argues for �protecting property� is telling about his general stance towards copyright, even if we can�t extrapolate an INDUCE Act opinion. True, Kerry argues generally for �balance� and �compromise,� but Jessica Litman has shown that such maneuvers during the last hundred years have consistently ended up increasing copyright holder rights at the expense of consumer/social rights because only industry insiders are ever consulted. Kerry appears to decry the groups that question anticopying technology (which goes well beyond the grants of copyright and ‘legislates by technology’ unprecedented changes to unregulated consumer use and regulated fair use) as those arguing against �a reasonable compromise.� This is certainly a telling example of his conception of compromise.

To me, Kerry has a stance like most other US presidents have had–which is to say, no thought-out stance at all. Whatever congress tells him is a compromise is probably what he will sign. Again, with the INDUCE Act in particular, who knows, but he would likely sign the Act if it was pitched to him as “the compromise that congress worked out.”

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By: Anonymous https://archives.lessig.org/?p=2659#comment-5349 Sun, 01 Aug 2004 04:50:12 +0000 http://lessig.org/blog/2004/07/the_question.html#comment-5349 The only comment on copyright law I’ve seen from Kerry has been this Hollywood Reporter article. It certainly doesn’t deal with INDUCE directly, but it gives me little hope that Kerry will be even remotely vigilant towards a balanced copyright.

Although one would expect Kerry to take a harder stance on unauthorized uses of copyright material an interview with an industry association magazine, his comments still don’t bode well for anyone who wants balanced instead of simply maximal copyright. He is somewhat equivocal in that he acknowledges legitimcay of “the normal college-dorm, room-to-room, person-to-person, friend-to-friend kind of sharing,” he later says that “you’ve got different parties that are resisting doing things that could conceivably make it difficult for people to share or destroy or limit by virtue of technology the capacity for a CD to be recopied any number of times and so forth. There are economic interests out there that lobby against a reasonable compromise to protect the property.

I’ve read your books, Mr. Lessig, so I know you are willing to assert that copyright is a property right, albiet a very special one. I however think any sort of property right and phrasing can never be really free from the connotations of physical property. There is a full vocabulary that people automatically use and think in when they talk about property–theft, (exclusive) owndership, and so on–that is inimical to balance in copyright.

That Kerry argues for ‘protecting property’ is telling about his general stance towards copyright, even if we can’t extrapolate an INDUCE Act opinion. True, Kerry argues generally for ‘balance’ and ‘compromise,’ but the Jessica Litman has shown that such maneuvers during the last hundred years have consistently ended up increasing copyright holder rights at the expense of consumer/social rights because only industry insiders are ever consulted. That Kerry seems to decry the new groups that have sprung up to protect consumer rights as those arguing against “a reasonable compromise.”

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