what orrin doesn’t get

Senator Hatch has been swallowed by the extremists. (Though this might not be such a bad idea. Can we bomb the offices of stock brokers thought to be violating SEC regulations? Or bulldoze houses of citizens with unregistered guns? Or — yes, this is good — short the telephones of people who use indecent language?)

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20 Responses to what orrin doesn’t get

  1. Maybe give us all the right to destroy the computers of spammers while they’re at it?

    Shoot out the speakers of that guy down the street that plays his music too loud?

    Destroy the computers of copyright holders who destroy computers of people who weren’t actually violating copyrights?

  2. Aaron Swartz says:

    Electrocute people who use cell phones in theaters.

  3. Curtis says:

    Legalize road rage! (That person was speeding and cut me off while going through a red light. Therefore, I shot him.)

  4. Matthew says:

    Wasn’t vigilantism outlawed some time ago? What is it about the repercussions of allowing such action that Hatch and Berman don’t understand? Would they be suggesting that we can empty their bank accounts because they misappropriately accepted campaign contributions? Destroy their cars for driving drunk?

  5. Fuzzy says:

    Well, I have to say Sen. Hatch appears to be a bit batty but…

    Wasn�t vigilantism outlawed some time ago?

    But they won’t be ‘self-appointed doers of justice’, they would be legally authorized doers of “justice”. Of course, the fact that they did not go through a judicial review process before punishing the alleged crime still does not look like justice to me.

    But look on the bright side – it won’t just be your computer that blows up. Lexmark could blow up your printer if you put a 3rd party ink cartridge into it. ABC/NBC/CBS could blow up your DVR for skipping over a commercial.
    Disney could melt down your DVD player for trying to play an expired disposable DVD.
    Think of how this could help out the economy by forcing consumers to buy new equipment on a frequent basis!

  6. adamsj says:

    Don’t get me started on Walker v. Rock Against Racism or I’ll never shut up.

  7. Anonymous says:

    But they won�t be �self-appointed doers of justice�, they would be legally authorized doers of �justice�.

    Yes, but then they would still have to abide by those little things called the fourth and fifth amendments….

  8. Dan says:

    Probably worth noting his campaign contributions. OpenSecrets reports that TV, Music, and Movie producers were the #4 largest contributing industry to his campaign. Not to mention Pharmaceutical companies, at #2, who also have a strong interest in strong IP. Walt Disney gave $17,000. Gee, whiz.

  9. Kriss Craig says:

    I liked the EFF response: Hatch’s proposal is the equivalent of allowing the creditors to come and blow up your garage after 2 missed car payments…

    The RIAA of course loved his proposal…

  10. Jim Penny says:

    To the honorable Senator ___________

    This email is copyrighted per the Berne convention and is licensed to be
    viewed only by the Senator ___________

    To assure that the copyright and license terms are met, I must
    reserve the right to examine all traffic into, and out of your computer.
    I reserve the right to examine any file on your computer. This is needed
    to make sure that you have not simply renamed it.

    Per your suggestion, I will provide two notifications if this letter is found
    to be used in violation my copyright and/or license. Then, regretfully,
    I must destoy your computer. Sorry about that. No ill will, or anything.
    Just following the law. What’s good for the RIAA is good for the Senate,
    all that.

    Now, I have it on the best of terms that there is a movement afoot that
    will have enormous effects on the entire Westeren portion of the US. Dams
    are being filled with silt! Please correct this ….

  11. While the criticism of Hatch is not meritless, I think that it is overblown.

    First, Hatch suggested such measures only as a last resort. Re-read the quoted language in The Washington Post article to which Professor Lessig links. You don’t really have to engage in a great deal of parsing to see that Hatch would prefer another solution.

    Second, the analogies in the preceding comments are correct insofar as they suggest that Hatch’s proposal appears to be a highly disproportionate response to the problem. But I think that the various analogies go too far in suggesting that self-help remedies are wrong even in principle.

    Technological obstacles may effectively rule out Hatch’s suggestion, but the very idea of self-help remedies in the context of protecting property rights does not strike me as extreme. Consider, by way of analogy, the laws that exist in many (if not all) states that allow one to exercise the use of force in protecting one’s own tangible personal property.

    I try to offer a fuller and more charitable view of Hatch’s comments and a justification of such self-help remedies in principle over at my blog.

  12. Hatch didn’t say that he would reluctantly consider severe measures if moderate measures failed. He said he was “all for” the extreme measures if no others could be found. “All for”: The emotional weight of these words implies that he considers the adoption of his extreme proposal both likely and good.

    What he was “all for” was not confiscation of computers after due process. It was the destruction of computers by a private party, remotely, on mere suspicion, without regard for the error that remote detection by mindless computer programs is prone to, without regard for whether the destruction endangers life or limb (by starting a fire, for instance) and without regard for whether the computer in question was at the same time running a program on which someone’s life or livelihood depends: for modern computers (as Sen. Hatch seems to have forgotten) are capable of multitasking, that is, sharing their processors’ time among a number of different process in a way that looks simultaneous to the human users.

  13. Jenny says:

    “Hatch suggested such measures only as a last resort….You don’t really have to engage in a great deal of parsing to see that Hatch would prefer another solution.”

    If that is the case, then why doesn’t he put his constituents money to good use and come up with a workable solution, or at least something that may lead to one, instead of suggesting widely derised ideas that (according to later assertions) even HE doesn’t like?

    “I think that the various analogies go too far in suggesting that self-help remedies are wrong even in principle….Consider, by way of analogy, the laws that exist in many (if not all) states that allow one to exercise the use of force in protecting one’s own tangible personal property.”

    The key here is protecting. We aren’t talking about trying to prevent a crime, Hatch’s proposal would sanction extreme reactions to a (suspected) crime that has already occured. We allow force to be used in defence of life, liberty and property as a practical matter, but we do not condone vigilante justice after the fact, especially if guilt has yet to be proven. The penal code you cite even has the word immediate in it. I can see no reasonable parallel between the two scenarios.

    Furthermore, consistently treating copyrights as if they were real estate ignores the fact that copyrights are more like laws governing forms of transportation; they are defined by technology, not simply affected by them. One does not adjust copyright laws they way one changes real estate laws to accomodate for flight patterns. Trying to apply copyrights that were designed for old media, which is a relatively passive experience for the user, to new media, which is more interactive and malleable, is like trying to govern air and ground travel by the same rules.

    The RIAA and friends are not losing money because people like to steal stuff, they are losing money because they insist on seeing MP3s and other digital media as if they were font changes. It would be as if the scribes and ruling class of Europe had reacted to the printing press only by marveling at the nice block letters and wondering how best to fill in the gaps with illustrations.

  14. ed cone says:

    it’s all just noise, anyway.

    http://radio.weblogs.com/0107946/2003/06/18.html#a557

    rick boucher’s got it figured out.

  15. Fuzzy says:

    Wired News is running a story about the senator using unlicensed software on his web site, thus turning him into a software pirate.

  16. Karl says:

    James,

    Even if you are correct in all the above, the stories I’ve read insist that the license requires registration with the author, something that the author was quoted as saying he never saw from Hatch or the company in charge of his website.

    -kd

  17. James Day says:

    There are versions available with a license which matches the claims the author made. The cached version of the site shows that the Senator’s site wasn’t using one of those versions.

    Natural enough for the news stories to reflect the juicy claims without going so far as to put the address of the javascript file with the license in a browser URL, download it and read it.

    Since I notified the author of the lack of foundation for his claims, it’s possible that there will soon be updated distributions available, with a less free license.

  18. Fuzzy says:

    Gee, James, it appears that you need to apologize to the author, since according to those terribly untrustworthy news people, the company responsible for Sen. Hatch’s website admitted making a mistake.

    “It was all a misunderstanding, an honest mistake,”

  19. James Day says:

    I’ve no current plans to do so. The company ws undoubtedly told to make this issue go away. Regardless of whether the use was permitted or not. The Senator probably has little interest in his site being a case study in incorrect copyright infringement claims. It wouldn’t serve the interests of his financial supporters.

    If the author cares to explain why my analysis of what the license actually contained is in any way inaccurate, and I agree, I’ll be more than happy to apologize for my erroneous statement. At the moment, the facts I’ve seen do not appear to support the infringement claim.

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